Taking photos in local pool-have I over reacted?

[williwonti]

I don't think so but have a knot in stomach. Basically, glanced at man sat next to me (maybe 18/20 yrs old) and he'd just taken a picture of my son and no other child in shot. He then took a short vid and another picture which included his sister. We were waiting at side during their swimming lessons. It was done very casually and I didn't get any weird vibes. I think he was probably/hopefully messing with phone as that's how it felt. But there are posters saying no photography! Now, ordinarily i have no issues asking people to conform (think mother and baby space offenders) but he was with all family and i was on own with baby. I panicked a bit and then just told the instructor after to pls clamp down on it. She wasn't impressed and insisted on following him and asking him to delete any taken. I know i should have tapped him on shoulder myself and asked him not to but it didn't feel right. He did not know he was my son as i was sitting away a bit. I feel awful that he will have been stopped but thought of random nan with pics of my son would feel worse i'm sure. Did i over react?

I'm interested in this thread because I don't really get the whole thing about not taking pictures of children in a swimming pool. Its not something I would do but now this man has taken these pics - what is the actual issue about it?

It is a child protection issue.

• because children have little clothing on

My friend was asked to delete photos of myself and her granddaughter about 5 years ago.

I think you did exactly the right thing. Don't worry. You were right to ask the pool attendant to intervene to protects your son. It also alerts the pool staff to keep an eye on the man in future.

I still don't get it. Why are the children at risk in this situation? What could happen to them as a result of someone taking their photo? No one knows who they are. No one knows their address. They are just random children in a swimming pool in swimming costumes.

In it's simplest way Cherry, I think it comes down to an issue of consent. The person taking the photo cannot ensure that they wouldn't accidentally include another person (child or adult) in their shot. It's not feasible to gain everyone's permission prior to going swimming and not everyone would grant permission. So it's easier to say no photography.

You acted in exactly the proper manner, in fact is it not always best to go to some one in authority in that situation.

You didn't know how he'd react and if he did have any sinister intent he wouldn't have listened to you and he might have got aggressive. Where as a member of pool staff will know how to deal with these situations and has the authority to make him leave etc.

Cherry
Unfortunately in the world today there are some people who do despicable things to children and there is things like photoshop. Get my drift. Some people get a kick out of this not saying the young man was one of them. He may simply be taking photos of children swimming. He may have special needs like autism and like recording his day with photos.
It is a fairly recent thing as we found out (about 6 years ago at pool.) My sister was refused her photos of her kids in the bath by Boots about 10 years ago! One of them had made a Mohican hairstyle with soapy hair and looked so funny she took a photo then took a few more family snaps. A bit over zealous staff member refused to give those photos back.
As Shirking says not everyone has given permission. There are some children in child protection schemes who have been moved to another county. Those children cannot be photographed, can't have there photo in the paper and people put photos on Facebook in public domains.
Naught I agree I was thinking the same thing when I read it before. Could have followed her home to if really annoyed.

Absolutely not unreasonable at all. Id have thrown his camera in the pool. Nasty pervs are more prevalent than you think. I have known 2 individuals (totally unconnected to each other) who have been sent down for making and distributing dodgey images (both outwardly nice friendly professional men). Know I view anyone doing something weird like this with suspicion. I would have called the police so they had his name on file

I have been in pools before and seen the lifeguards / staff approach members of the public and ask them to delete photos that they have taken, I have also seen the staff ask people to put their phones away or move to an area which isn't in view of the pool.
It is a standard rule that you don't take photos in public pool areas. You did nothing wrong. Even if he had been taking photos that didn't include your child you would still have been right to inform staff. It makes no difference wether he is an innocent 19/20 year old with his family or an older shifty looking single man or a woman or anybody else - you don't take photos at the pool

One day DH popped into ASDA while I sat in the car park with sleeping DS texting him helpful instructions.

He came out a bit pale and said that some random guy had completely gone off on one yelling about how DH had been taking photos of his kid, (he'd been walking around the shop with his phone in his hand and presumably walked past this family).

The funniest thing was that that phone didn't even have a camera on it - let alone one poised to take snaps of passing kids shopping.

that is an overreaction.

You reacted fine.

I'm with Cherry, I don't get the problem and would not have done anything about it.

"It comes down to consent" no it does does. You do not need consent to photograph someone as you are in no way harming or affecting them. If you then use the photo to ridicule them, for example, we have a moral issue but it has to do with the ridicule not the photo and it wouldn't be solved by requiring consent. Consent is someone's agreement to a third party doing something to them, taking someone's photo does not do anything to them.

"Child protection schemes" this is the only valid one but it is limited. The issue is distributing the photo in the public domain where it can be seen (Facebook, print media) rather than taking it in the first place. There is no reason to think the guy in the pool would have put the photo on FB and OP has not said anything about her child being on a protection scheme.

"There are people who do despicable things to children..." Of course there are but I don't see how they could do those things by taking a photograph of a child in an everyday situation.

"There is photoshop" What could anyone do to a photo of my swimming child with photoshop that would harm my child?

Why does all this matter? Why not refrain from taking photos just to placate people? Because it causes hysteria about a harmless activity and draws attention and resources from child protection issues that are of concern.

Some really naive posters on here

You did the right thing OP.

*is photoshop" What could anyone do to a photo of my swimming child with photoshop that would harm my child?^

Do you really not know the answer to that?

It is unnaceptable to take photos of anybody (adult or child) in swimwear without their permission. I wouldn't even be happy about strangers taking photos of my children or me with our outdoor clothes on.

I have Photoshop. Believe me you can do all sorts of nasty things with a photo of someone. (not that I do BTW)

Seriously?? Some people think it's OK to take pictures of what I assume was a half naked child they don't know?

No you didn't over react at all and did the correct thing in my opinion.

There is also a scheme called Leisurewatch, launched in 2001, brought in to help protect children in the community from those who may wish them harm. It is a joint venture between local authorities and police where local authority staff are allowed to ask individuals, and this could include photographers, their motives for being there and taking the pictures, if not satisfied with your response they are able to contact the police. You of course are likely to have long left before they arrive if they do at all. Signs will be displayed at accredited sites and may be found in recreational areas such as beaches, piers, parks and seafronts. If photographing in one of these areas be aware that you may get approached.

Taken from a photography website with information about your rights to photograph.

Booboostwo all of the activities I take my dc to ask me to sign a form of they are to be photographed. Same for swimming lessons, if a parent is there and wants to take photos the class leader always checks that it's ok to take photos.

I was expecting from the title that you snatched his phone off him and screamed abuse

No YWNBU at all. There are strict no camera policies at most pools, so as a rule breaker it is only appropriate that he should be told.

I was at swimming lessons with DC last week and at the same time there is a baby class (it was their first day) Two Mum's asked their partners (who were on bench at poolside) to take photos and the instructor saw this and did an "uneasy" face, but didn't stop them. It is a private swimming club and on the consent forms one of the rules is clearly stated the the use of a camera is prohibited. Whilst it was obvious that the photos were harmless I didn't like it on principle.

You did the right thing OP. More often than not we think of things we should have said or done, but that's because you were caught on the hop.

I don't think there is a real danger with these photos but taking them in a private place where there are signs telling you not to is a provocative act and that's what would make me feel uneasy. I'd think the person was trying to cause a reaction or intimidate me which is anti-social.

I'm perturbed by ditsy's stories of the Boots assistant and the person who asked her friend to delete pictures she had permission to take - if she was using a camera on private premises, he should have asked her to put it away or leave, but he has no right to demand the pictures are deleted. Things like that cause resentment and undermine sensible actions to deal with child abuse or harassment.

shirking that Leisurewatch thing means nothing and has no information about your rights to photograph. Anyone can ask anyone else what they are doing. They might not get an answer. Anyone can call the police if they want.

Actually, no, it's not naive to question the prevailing wisdom around photography of children in public places. Or to challenge the notion that there's an onus on us to change our behaviour (i.e. no longer being allowed to record our children having fun in public spaces) on the off-chance that a stranger might take a picture of our kids doing something innocent and use it for sexual purposes. Some parents feel that as they can't actually control what thoughts other people might have regarding their children, their job is to protect the child in real life rather than worrying about the potential existence of a Photoshopped image they'll never know about.

The idea of bath pictures of someone's own child being treated like child pornography by Boots staff is very sad.

There are pictures of children in swimming pools all over the internet. Just google "children in swimming pools" and look at images.

Are the children in them being harmed by having their picture taken?

I'm glad you'd be happy with a complete stranger taking a photo of your half naked child, Cherry. good for you.

I wouldn't be. WTF could a stranger want with a photo of a half naked child they don't know...?

And no, I"m not a "peedo on every corner" type of person.

Just because there are pictures of kids in pools over the Internet cherry doesn't mean some weirdo isn't using them for very sinister purposes.

I'm really not a peado round every corner, in fact I generally think every ones good and doesn't want to mug, murder, fanitze over every one else. But I am aware these people exist, photos are doctored, even non doctored ones are well used for sexual gratification. Kids half naked are something that makes me quite uneasy. I can look at them and go aww cute nice swimming lesson not every one does.

Now in this case, this appears to be a young lad accompanying his younger sibling to swimming and rather naively taken pictures which is why the op I guess feels like she's over reacted, because the lad did delete them when asked and she in hind sight feels that she could have asked herself. And that's great. Lovely that the lad has reacted that way.

Limited it doesn't you're right but it was to demonstrate that there are restrictions and people are right to question those taking photos in public / local authority leisure amenities

I understand shirking, sorry. I just don't find it very helpful to anyone. It even seems to be suggesting that if you want to take pictures be quick about it and go.

This guide might help. It's aimed at photographers and supports the right to photograph, but if you are a reluctant photographee, you can pick up some tips on how you can object.

I think the main thing is that a swimming pool might be a public place, but for all intents and purposes it is a semi-private club. They can set any rules they like. If most members of the club don't like photography, you shouldn't do it.