To be pleased the the Policeman gave this rude, ignorant woman a lecture in front of people.

[Oldsu]

My DH is manager of a charity shop, this week I have been helping him out as he is short staffed and I have 5 weeks holiday as apposed to his 4 weeks so have used up my spare week to work in the shop.

Yesterday a woman dropped of a bag of donations when I was sorting it I found an envelope stuffed with money (600 quid to be precise) TECHNICALLY we could have put it through as a donation as policy is anything in a donation bag belongs to the charity, however it was clear it was a mistake, so 3 of us counted it, put it into an envelope signed it and DH locked it in the safe.

He also sent an email to his area manager asking what the policy is if customer didn't come back, made a note in the shops diary and made a phone call to the police, everything by the book and documented as it should be.

Today the woman came back in she forced her way to the front of the queue shouting 'where's my money I want my money'. So I spoke to her explaining her money was safe, its in the shop safe but only the manager has the combination and he has gone to the bank but he wont be long.

She went ballistic red in the face and spitting, accused me of stealing her money and demanded I gave it back to her NOW, again I tried to reason with her but she wasn't having any of it and stormed out saying she was getting the police, I was shaking at this point.

DH came back 5 minutes later and calmed me down. 1/2 hour later she came back with two Policemen one went up stairs with DH came down five minutes later with the envelope, she just snatched it out of his hand he stopped her and made her count the money in front of him, again she turned to go without even a word, the Policeman then stopped her again and told her to apologise to me , gave her a very stern lecture in front of everybody about wasting police time.

DH said he showed the Policeman the entry in the diary and the email he had sent his AM and that he had reported the find to the police station. to prove we were not going to steal it.

And I thought my old man had a cushy job just sorting through old clothes

again she turned to go without even a word, the Policeman then stopped her again and told her to apologise to me

i understand why an apology is suggested. but will point out that in this particular situation the ranting and unacceptable behaviour had ceased. The woman was trying to leave. The apology request doesnt appear to have been necessary to calm anyone down or diffuse the situation as the woman was already leaving. He stopped her leaving to ask/tell her to apologise.

Being a Scouser, any Police Officer who told me that I had to apologise, would be given the answer "I will do, see you in 27 years".

Wow, I'm glad.to see that I'm not the only one who was like WTAF at this comment. How ridiculously inappropriate!

I would have been tempted when handing her back the envelope in the presence of the police officer to say, "You must be so relieved, growing cannabis is such hard work , it would have been such a shame to lose all that profit" .......

I assume someone checked that this was the amount she was talking about? She may have though she dropped a tenner in a bag and has now walked off with £600!

Did she have to tell you the exact amount and describe some of the other items in the bag OP?

I wouldn't have given her the money at all until she could prove it was hers.

I completely agree with other comments about it being scary getting the state stepping into enforce politeness. And I don't actually think it was inappropriate to bring the police in at that point - it was over-bearing but if you HAD been trying to pull a fast one it would have seemed wise to get police involvement at that point. If I thought I was being robbed by a shop, marching out and getting a policeman would be exactly what I'd do.

Also wasting police time involves "knowingly making a false report" that a crime has been committed -- it does not appear that she did do that or that there was any reason to think she did. She seems to have genuinely, if unreasonably, believed that you were stealing her money. So I think that the policeman was vastly overstepping the mark for suggesting it. He was abusing his authority to make a veiled threat regarding a crime she had clearly not committed (but which she might have believed she had, through ignorance of the law). She sounds unpleasant, but unpleasantness is not a crime and it doesn't justify police harassment.

The Hillsborough reference is not "vile" nor inappropriate. A policeman using his authority to enforce something other than the law is an abuse of power. It's a small-scale abuse of power, but an abuse nonetheless.

Also - since it was obviously a mistake you could not "technically" have kept it. Keeping something that has been given to you by mistake when you realise that it is a mistake is also theft. So you did the right thing - but it's not like in law you had any choice about that anyway.

I reckon the cop did the right thing morally, socially and in light of de-escalation.

There is a legal justification, too, however. Malicious accusation can lead to a legal charge of perverting the course of justice, and a civil suit for defamation.

So he de-escalated that, as well.

But there was no reason to think it was a malicious accusation. It wouldn't make sense for it to be. She just wrongly and unreasonably but apparently genuinely thought that the shop wasn't going to give her the money back and that the OP was lying. That's unpleasant and deeply paranoid behaviour (which suggests MH problems to me - not that this excuses it) and it must have been horrible and upsetting for the poor OP. But that doesn't make it a malicious accusation, nor wasting police time.

I think she deserved everything she got. She behaved appallingly, and I think anyone would be WELL within their rights to suggest an apology was in order.

Suggest, yes.

I agree the woman behaved appallingly. I agree any private person would have been justified in saying she should apologise. The problem comes when the police are involved a policeman is not just some random bloke expressing an opinion (when he's on duty) he is enforcing the power of the state. And he is only allowed to enforce the power of the state within very the very strict confines of what the law says he can. Anything he says will be interpreted as coming from the state and having the authority of the state behind it. So when a policeman is off duty he can make any suggestions he likes. When he's on duty he can only suggest things that are within the limits of his power (a "suggestion" from a policeman is not the same as a suggestion from someone else).

What did this policeman "enforce" that was not within his power to enforce? An apology? How did he "enforce" that? .

If you are going to attempt to put together such a pathetic fallacy of an argument you could equally argue that he was legally justified in de-escalating the situation as she was exhibiting behaviour that could cause a breach of the peace.

He told her to apologise. Is this now enforcing? What did he actually do to "enforce" this apology? Twist her arm behind her back? Get her in a strangle-hold? Put a gun to her head? She could have told him "No I am not going to apologise" and continued on her merry way. But she didn't. Unless we are going to argue that there was an implied threat in being told to apologise.

But all this really doesn't matter a shit, does it? She was disgustingly rude. She was told the money was in a safe (hardly adds up to the charity shop trying to steal it - if you were really trying to steal it you would have denied all knowledge of it!) then started ranting and making loud and public accusations of criminal behaviour (theft). She was put in her place.

I'd be keen to hear the actual words he used. I suspect he suggested she apologise rather than tell her to apologise. Could well be wrong of course and maybe he did actually say "apologise to mrscharityshop"

ballistic red

This needs to be a paint colour name.

You don't think the words "I suggest you apologise" have a different force when they're said to you by eg a policeman, your boss, your teacher when you're at school, your parents when you're a small child to when they're said to you by some random person with no authority? Of course someone's authority changes the force of what they "suggest".

I would have made her sign a receipt

Nobility i'm not sure what you have taken against in my post but i'll clarify (more than i already have done in the actual post) that i was questioning the actual wording. Of course a suggestion made by someone in authority has a different weight to it. That is not what i was arguing.

Sorry Martha, my post was directed at ratherberiding, not you. I agree with what you're saying.

She was panicking about losing £600. I find that entirely believable. I'm very surprised at the rest of it.

IME once the police have resolved a situation - she got her money, it was established that your husband didn't steal it - they just leave. They are police officers, not school teachers.

actually nobilityobliges the charity could have kept as I have said before anything that's donated automatically belongs to the shop that's the policy of almost all charity shops , BUT mistakes do happen that's why my DH put it in the safe not because any law compels him to but because he is an honest man and has never stolen anything in his life.

To all those you say that the Policeman was over stepping the mark, let me tell about the very serious consequence of yesterdays 'fun and games'

My Husband had written a report and sent it to his area manager including the Police involvement and the accusation of theft and its a good thing he did, yesterday night a customer emailed a complaint to the head office, in this complaint she said that she was on her way in with a bag of donations, she explained she is a regular, shopper and donator and a supporter of the charity, she heard the other 'customer' accuse me of theft, she saw her storm out saying she was getting the Police and she turned round walked out and left her donations with another charity, she told HO that she would never shop, donate or support the charity ever again if it employed thieves.

The head of retail and the regional manager got involved this morning, and the regional manager phoned the area manager, who had the report and was able to email it to everyone concerned. But it got very serious, my DH could have lost his job, the complaining customer has been sent an explanation but who knows if she will believe it, who knows how many people she has already told don't donate or shop in * any more.

It all seems terribly fast-moving and dramatic down your way.

Apologies nobility

OP i now no longer believe one word of this thread and am reporting.

Ahh, see i'm not alone.

Oh don't report. I'm enjoying it