To want another child so much?

[anjarose]

Hi, would really appreciate outside views on this as people close to me tend to agree with me but I am not sure if it is to save my feelings?

For 3 years me and dp tried for a baby, I have endometriosis and we found out his speech count very low. Told we needed ICSI at the fertility clinic, we started the going through the preliminary bloods and examinations - history etc, signed the papers and were due to start treatment.
His opinion was, much like mine- I don't love this but we have no choice etc.

Then 1 week before we were due to start ICSI I found out I had conceived naturally. Brilliant miracle! I have. 6 year old healthy son and believe me I know how lucky I am.

Fast forward to last year- I always wanted to donate eggs- since I know the feeling of heartbreak- I went to the same club and started the process,-aged 29.
They told me about egg sharing so I thought- after I have donated once- maybe next time I could do that!! Have a another child which would be a dream come true.

Clinic told me my AMH showed too low but wasn't so low I had to panic( it's 8)

Went and toldDP everything- was a little emotional - feeling like maybe we don't have that much time can we just go for it & do one round of ICSI- so I can not have any regrets.

He said- flat out NO
No- we have one child, we should be gresteful etc- but mainly because ( he's raised a Catholic) he believes IVF unnatural and fundamentally WRONG

I am distraught- am now very broody, also that I feel misled!!!
If he felt that way why attend 8 months of doctor appts at a fertility clinic and begin that process!?!
I have begun to resent him- and fear this could end the relationship TBH
It's become a bigger issue than the baby- I don't feel like he can really love me- I feel tricked, I feel a fool.

Also during these talks I suggested adoption as an alternative, mainly I want my son to have a sibling and handoff ten thought about this- again he says NO, can't see himself with another persons child

AIBU to be this upset???

I don't think anyone is saying the OP shouldn't leave. That's her choice.

Personally, I don't think the threat to leave should be used as bargaining chip.

Afterall, if he is the one racing fertility issues( hope I got that bit right), he should put in effort to make you happy.

Ridiculous thing to say.

No one should enter IVF just to please their partner if they're not on board themselves (for any reason).

However, your DP needs to get better at talking about this. I think it's the communication which is the real issue here.

"his fertility is the pits"

Nice way to talk about your partner.

And no I don't think it's his decision only. Afterall, if he is the one racing fertility issues( hope I got that bit right), he should put in effort to make you happy.

Christ almighty. I wasn't aware that the fact I had PCOS meant I was obliged to become a baby making machine on demand for DH because it's my fault so I should make him 'happy'.

How fucking ridiculous. Fertility problems don't make the issue any different from two fertile people. Both parents should be completely on board with the decision to have a child. Otherwise it shouldn't happen. Nobody is obliged to have a child with someone just to make them happy if it's not what they want. The fertility issues are a red herring here.

It's very sad for you, and not at all kind of him to have said nothing at an earlier stage, but whatever his reasons are for his decisions not to be willing to try IVF or adoption you need to respect his decisions.

If you no longer want to be in a relationship with him because of how he's behaved over this, or because he won't try these things, that's your choice.

If he won't attend counselling you could go alone.

I don't think donating eggs was a good idea given your feelings over wanting a second DC.

I feel tricked. I feel a fool
This is the problem. It's not a "sorry darling but I really can't see myself wanting another child", it's "I was lying when I said I would have ivf 6 years ago as it's immoral and always has been!" - which is clearly not what he really thinks, so the final conclusion is "I don't fancy another child but I'll say it's because of my religion as you'd be an arse to argue with that".

And yes, your comments about his fertility were out of order!

OP, how would you feel if this issue was a deal breaker for him? How would you feel if he threatened to leave if you didn't give him his own way?

Yes, just as wanting another is a sufficient reason for the other partner to leave.

If someone was prepared to leave their partner over this issue and break up what is otherwise (as far as we know) a happy family I would suggest that they neither loved nor respected their partner enough to have another child with them anyway.

Even if the OP decided to do that, there is no guarantee that she would even meet someone willing to have a baby with her (let alone someone suitable who she actually loves). Even if that does happen there's no guarantee that she will even get pregnant as she has her own issues and for all she knows so could her hypothetical new man! And of course the split would put her 6 year old son through a massive trauma for the sake of a hypothetical baby who may never exist and possibly blight his life forever and risk his financial and emotional security. But hey, that's fine, the OP shouldn't think about anything but what she wants right?

YANBU to be upset but some of the language you've used on here has been a bit . "If you loved me you'd have another baby" is a silly thing to say (and as for his fertility being "the pits"-awful thing to say). I know I wouldn't want to emotionally blackmail my partner into having a baby he didn't want. It sounds as if he was willing to go through fertility treatment to get a child, now you have one he doesn't want to go through it for a second.

Bill I don't think it's a simple as that.

I think if a person really wants a child and their partner says no, the longing for a child doesn't stop and turns to resentment. This is what I get from threads on this subject from mn. I don't want anymore so haven't experienced it myself.

Personally if I was the op, I think I would be looking at counselling alone or as a couple to see if I can work through my feelings.

If she can't, I can't imagine the 6 year old child will have a great childhood living in a house where one parents resents the other so much.

Op the steps you have taken such as running, are great. But that's not working through your feelings.

If this has been going on quite a while, I can't help wonder if you do has in fact tried saying he doesn't want another child and because you keep pushing, he is now grasping for other excuses.

OK - you need to sit down and have a serious talk with him.

1. Why has ICSI now become an issue when he was prepared to do it before? Is he open to the idea of another child?

1. If his Catholic beliefs are such that he cannot support you going through fertility treatment to have another child, then why are you not married and why did he countenance having a child out of wedlock?

To be blunt, he sounds lazy. He's prepared to have a baby but only if it doesn't involve any effort beyond ejaculation. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to go through fertility treatment, but to justify it on the grounds of religion is pretty poor if that's not actually the case. It's also very hypocritical if he doesn't want to get married - so he's prepared to treat his Catholicism as a pick'n'mix buffet when it suits him?

I suggest you ask these questions because you should know where you stand. If your DP is committed to you and if you're relationship is on the same page. If he loves you but has genuine reasons for not wanting to marry and not wanting another child, then that's fine - just be honest about the reasons rather than hiding behind religion. If he is hiding and using excuses, then you need to know about it because as an unmarried parent you don't have the same legal status or protection as you would if you were married. This is important for the financial security of both you and your son. Therefore you need to make sure that you are in this relationship with your eyes open.

So does this apply to women too Curren, you must deliver babies on demand otherwise your partner is entitled to resent you and boot you out?

Or is it just men who are expected to take on a lifetime of financial and emotional commitment that they do not desire because they're essentially going to be blackmailed into 'give me another baby or get out'.

Men have just as much right as women to have a say over reproduction. Although I would tend to think if someone genuinely was prepared to jack in an otherwise happy marriage over this, they're probably so shallow and selfish their partner would probably have had a lucky escape.

(Not that I'm suggesting this applies to you OP, it's directed towards the posters who seem to think that impregnate me or get out is a reasonable response).

Bill it should apply to anyone. But sometimes resentment breeds in relationships. It's no ones fault but it's there.

I have said many times I think the OP would be wrong to hold this over their dp.

However sometimes resentment is there and if it can't be moved past, the relationship is as good as dead.

I have posted several times that I don't think anyone should be black mailed or forced into TTC. But I also get that resentment is real but not always reasonable.

It's not fair or right. But it happens. I am not saying it's ok, simply that it happens and isn't as simple as the OP splitting because she can't get her own way. I think she would be mad to leave and otherwise happy relationship over this. But I have seen many threads where this issue leads to the break up of the relationship, regardless of the outcome.

It's shouldn't apply to anyone

Curren to be honest, my comments weren't really aimed at you. But more towards people like Lazy whose knee jerk response is to say LTB, or people who are suggesting that not wanting another child is 'lazy' (would anybody say that to a woman who had found parenting tough the first time round and wasn't keen for more), or badly behaved (is a woman who doesn't give into her partners demands for more children a badly behaved spouse?).

As for the religion issue, he doesn't actually need to justify it using his religion. IVF or ICSI (and I am currently pregnant as a result of IVF) does bring up a host of ethical issues for people undergoing it. Many people feel uncomfortable with the idea of unused healthy, viable embryos simply being chucked away when unneeded. If he has issues with that he doesn't even need to justify it with his religion, but if he does feel it's something he can't deal with and his religion comes into that he is entitled to feel that way. And IVF isn't just a matter of popping into hospital and having a baby put in your stomach. It's long, gruelling, arduous, unpleasant and has more chance of failing than it does of working and often ends in heartbreak.

If it genuinely becomes an insurmountable issue for the OP she is entitled to leave. But it's extremely early days and to be looking at that as a possible solution this early is just stupid IMO.

Incidentally I seriously doubt if a female OP was on here saying that she didn't want fertility treatment or more children she would be told she was lazy or selfish or that her husband should leave her.

I've been thinking about this thread and i really hope the OP is taking something from it. It' such an emotive issue. On the most part very reasoned and interesting responses here. IMO it's really hard to be completely logical and practical about the urge for another child.

My own perspective is this: I had 3 children with my XH. When we split our youngest was 8, i was mid 30s, nappy days long behind me, and i never envisaged having another baby for one millisecond.

When i met DH2 he had none of his own and was adamant he wouldn't ever want any of his own. We had The Talk very early on. He said he'd be happy as a step father. He was younger than me though and despite what he'd said i had to seriously consider what would happen to the relationship if he changed his mind one day. Could i ask him to never have kids of his own just because i'd had 3 and was all done? I decided no. I thought it would fester and could kill the relationship. So i silently decided that if he ever changed his mind and wanted to try for a baby with me i would give it a go, just for one. Llo and behold 2 years later that's just what happened - he changed his mind and asked to try. (Lovely DD4 is 2).

If i'd decided way back that i really really couldn't face having another child and all that it entails then i probably wouldn't have got any deeper into my relationship with him. How would i feel if he now suddenly wanted to try for a 2nd child? Well, I'd say no. One together is enough. So: (getting there!) i sympathise with OPs DH in the 'just one' aspect. I also i sympathise with her broodiness. (it wasn't plain sailing to get DD4 and i ended up desperate to conceive ironically).

I wish you all the best OP but if DH doesn't want any more children then that is the first and biggest issue you have to overcome in your mind if you intend to stay together.

Incidentally I seriously doubt if a female OP was on here saying that she didn't want fertility treatment or more children she would be told she was lazy or selfish or that her husband should leave her.

I totally agree Bill. In fact if a woman was saying she didn't want another but her dh did, even without the fertility treatment, she wouldn't be flamed. But he would get called all sorts for trying to force her.

As I said I wonder if has resorted to using religion because the OP keeps pushing, this has been going on 18 months.

I say this because the OP agrees with a poster that says the DP is obliged to do this because his fertility is the issue (even though the OP has problems in this area too) and because of the derogatory way she refers to his fertility issues. I can imagine this attitude has come over during their converstations. I can imagine he is feeling under a lot of pressure. That's not fair.

Billsykes I did not give a knee jerk response, and I have expanded on my feelings about the OP's partner in a subsequent post to explain why I feel he is not being honest with her. These are good reasons to rethink a relationship. I have suffered from secondary infertility and no the anguish this can cause, if my dh hadn't wanted to continue it would have led to a very serious review of our relationship. That's not a lack of respect for him, it's giving my own needs the respect they deserve. Better than staying and resenting.

If a woman posted on here taking the dp's line people would ask her what the real reason for not going ahead was, as it clearly isn't religious teaching, and telling her to be honest with herself and then with her partner.
I agree she wouldn't be asked to go ahead against her wishes, but I don't think people should lie about their reasons either. It's not a holiday it's a baby.

To clarify about use of 'lazy' - this is in the sense of using XYZ excuse as a convenient catch-all, to avoid a potentially difficult conversation where you have to be honest. In those circumstances it is lazy to hide behind a reason which is actually a load of bollocks.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting children, or to have another child. There is also nothing wrong with not wanting to go through fertility treatment. But having children is a fundamental issue and you have to be honest about it. The OP's partner is being inconsistent - I don't want fertility treatment because it's against my religious beliefs, yet I am quite happy to cherry pick those beliefs when it suits me. If he has a particular feeling about ICSI/IVF then he needs to be honest about that, rather than hiding behind his Catholicism (which clearly can't be that critical to him if he's in a LTR with a child despite not being married). The issue of honesty is the key part here.

Hi
Just checking in, I did not mean to offend with my description of my partners fertility issues- it was only a way of getting across how low our odds are.
I have had several surgeries with endometriosis so I have spent enough time in fertility clinics so am the last person who would try and upset anyone who's infertile.

I thought it was a safe closed environment & didn't mean any offense 😩 Sarcasm no dark humour do not work well on here I am learning slowly 😖

I am not a horrible person, just getting eaten up wit sadness really and trying very he's on my own to deal with it. With someone who is not open to talking about either of our feelings.
Not much has changed so nothing to update on- running helps me work through my thoughts but that is all

Can't offer much in the way of advice, but sending sympathy. I have three and desperately wanted a fourth, but number three was a surprise and DH categorically refused to consider having a fourth. I know it's a very different situation, but as far as I can tell it doesn't matter how many you already have - if you want one more it's devastating to be told that your partner doesn't.

I hope you find a way to get your DP to talk a bit more. It's easier if you can understand why he's reluctant.

I might be totally wrong here, but I am sure I read that if is OK with the Catholic Church if the sperm is collected after having sex naturally. Does that make sense? It's not artificial at all then, you are technically doing it as nature intended but are collecting the leftovers for use if the sex dosent work.

Do not ask me how you would go about it, but there is a window there maybe?

Sorry you are going through this and I hope ye work it out x