to say that I am really glad not to be in labour today

[var123]

and to feel really sorry for anyone who is. Its stressful enough without worrying about not getting help if things start to go wrong.

Throughthick

The strike has led to cancellation of non-urgent, routine work such as clinics and non-urgent elective operations. As it is all out strike, that means that more consultants have had to cover the wards/A&E/maternity units etc than if junior's were still providing emergency care. That means a greater back log of routine work, so creates a bigger overall effect. That is the point.

How long do you think the NHS could carry on like this? It will manage in the current situation- two days 8am-5/6pm strike with juniors resuming normal service in the evening and overnight- because trusts have had time to plan and the consultants etc can cover for a few days without everything grinding to a halt. If that goes on for too long, that is not likely to continue to be the case.

Agree with everyone else that I am absolutely confident that excellent care can be provided by the consultants working today.

It's because I've got a kid that I completely support the junior doctors: I want the best possible set-up for the NHS for decades ahead, long after I've gone, and I trust the junior doctors to know what that best is, far more than I trust Jeremy Hunt.

YABU. Have you even read any of the replies or are you too busy frothing at the mouth. Care will not be affected by the junior doctors striking. The end.

I understand that there will be extra consultants drafted in, presumably excluding those who have prior commitments to their private patients. the consultants who had expected to have today off will be there as will the ones who might have done 3 hours in a clinic. I still can't see how that adds up to the same number of pairs of hands as there were yesterday.

Sometimes just because you really want something to be true does not make it so.

I think people are being really really harsh here. I think giving birth is a naturally worrying time, and the media have whipped everyone into a nice frenzy. Yes, you may even get better care today because you won't see a junior but a consultant, but who really knows. I'd just rather go into a hospital on a day when everyone is doing what they usually do, not covering. If anyone wants to give me a biscuit for that, then carry right on.
Personally, as someone who is 39+4, I'm happy that there are no signs of me giving birth today. in my case, it's because my DH is having to do an extra on call shift in case of the strike coinciding with any major operational difficulties or serious events. Fair enough.

But for all the reasons stated above there is no need to 'think sympathetically' for women in labour or those needing urgent hospital treatment today. They will be treated the same as they would on any other day. Read the full facts and not the scaremongering press shit.

But what is routine scheduled surgery when you are having a baby? Isn't it c-sections? They pick the date deliberately for those based on pregnancy dates and from my personal experience the theatre schedules are typically quite full.

There will be lots of people looking at the figures to see the effects of the strike. I know as DH is an info analyst for a hospital trust and has had to be in this week for that reason.

FWIW - the hospital trusts are incredibly conscientious at making sure that essential/emergency care isn't affected due to strikes. I was in hospital after having DD during one of the midwifery walk outs and everything was well covered.

Your care today, should you require emergency treatment, be in labour, or be an in patient will continue to be second to none. Even as things stand, with the government fucking it all up, we have arguably the best heathcare system in the world. The junior doctors are fighting to keep it this way for many years to come.

So yes YABU.

I shouldn't worry if I were you - anyone in need of urgent care today will get better qualified help than they normally would - I think I will plan to be ill today! - I will see what I can do

It adds up because the out patient clinics the consultants would normally be running and any scheduled operations have been cancelled.

Routine stuff the consultants would be doing has been stopped so they are in a position to do any emergency work or deal with births that happens today.

Patients are being upset and inconvenienced - one who have their routine but still important to their health stuff postponed. That is the affect of the strike - not putting people at risk who enter hospital today - other HCP are making sure that doesn't happen but it mean their jobs aren't being done so long term it's not an option.

At the beginning of August there is a "change over" day, when junior doctors move round to their next rotation.

During the day, the juniors are at induction all day (usually something like 8am-4pm), being given passwords, shown the IT system, shown the on-call room (Ha- as if!) etc.

While all this is going on, senior doctors man the fort. Yes, there will be a couple more hands around because not every doctor will rotate, and some of the on call ones will start before induction is over, but the point is, clinics and elective work are cancelled on the first Wed of every August every year. Every year. This isn't a whole heck of a lot different.

Well if youre so worried, then it shows how valuable our junior doctors and NHS staff are, and should be campaigning with them

YABU and you don't seem to be fully taking on board what has been said on the thread. You are right that wishing something to be so doesn't make it so and that works for your argument. Believing that the junior doctors being on strike will mean that lives will be put at risk doesn't make it so.

But I'm not sure I was always 100% reasonable whilst pregnant. I once had a meltdown in a supermarket because they only the wrong type of humous.

Var you are aware that non emergency sections, like all elective surgery, get bumped all the time to allow for emergency? Those women will still get the midwifery care and screening they need. The car parks will not be picked high with the corpses of people turned away while doctors stand outside!

There is a very good fb post doing the rounds this morning (see what I did there) which lists every member off staff in an ed this morning. Consultants by the shed load and gps drafted in to deal with the non essentials. You'd never get that level of care on an ordinary day.

I think with the consultants supporting the junior doctors, everything will be fine.

However, I'd much rather have a bit of short term chaos with people having their appointments delayed or surgeries such as arthroscopies cancelled than see the long term destruction of the NHS. And I say that as somebody who a) has had several knee operations in the past, and b) is currently pregnant and has a maternity appointment with an anaesthetist today - if it's cancelled or delayed, then so be it.

Chipped

It's not shit stirring and It's not faux concern- I really think the governments rhetoric is leading people to be concerned about going into hospital if they need to, because they are telling patients that they may not be safe. As demonstrated by this OP- she is worried about women going into labour as she doesn't think there will be enough staff to provide the care needed and so women in labour/patients needing emergency medical care will be unsafe.

In fact, the care will be being provided exclusively by consultant and senior doctors not in training posts. I very much doubt the staffing will be more stretched than usual, given the considerable gaps on junior doctors rota's as things stand.

Therefore, I believe that the OP has been misled (if you prefer that to fooled) by the governments pronouncements (and some media reporting) relating to the strike and as a result is (needlessly) concerned should she, or others, need emergency medical care today or tomorrow that they will not receive the care they need. I do think some people will be put off from seeking medical help because of the misunderstanding that has been created.

You shouldn't be worried if you go into labour today. There will be emergency cover from consultants, should you need it.

You should be worried if you had an elective section booked today, because that has probably been cancelled. Then it will need to be slotted back in amongst already full lists. Which will be difficult and you will probably receive a delay to your care.

I support the junior doctor's position, but there is an impact on planned care as a result of this strike. I'm fed up of hearing things will be safe; it depends on your definition of safe. If your planned knee surgery or gall bladder op was cancelled today then you may wait another few months in significant pain to have it done. That's harm to patients IMO.

1000 versus 500 - does that mean consultants only work 50% of the time?!

And it's particularly galling to have it implied that it's almost idiotic to be concerned about what is happening in hospitals today. This is what pisses me off about any debate to do with this particular issue.

OP I've been on MN for many years with different names, but you can have my first

You've reacted just the way Jeremy Hunt wants you to.

Branleuse - where did I use the word "worried"? its a bit too strong a sentiment for someone who doesn't expect to need medical help today and doesn't know anyone close who does.

Anyway, you are right: doctors are extremely important to society and always have been probably from the moment that we started walking on two legs. What's happening today doesn't change that need but it might lead to it being redefined how it is provided in the UK for the next 70 years.

I am very interested in certain subjects, but not this one. I won't try to contribute a view, certainly not the media's, nor the govts nor the junior doctors because I don't know enough about the rights and wrongs so I've nothing useful to offer.

Indeed Laguna, because heaven forbid that anyone should ever have any time off...

Indeed Laguna, because heaven forbid that anyone should ever have any time off...