"The Mummies on the Bus go chatter, chatter chatter" Really?

[BespokeStereophonicVinyl]

So, I attend a regular nursery rhyme session at my local library and 'The Wheels on the Bus' now seems to comprise the above delight, together with the equally offensive "The Daddies on the bus go shush, shush, shush"

I'm really bristling at this example of everyday sexism. Yes, I am a mother, but I am also educated to Post Grad level and have a bunch of fairly heavyweight professional qualifications too. Prior to having DD, I held a senior position in a very male dominated field and really resent the implication that when a woman (who may or may not have children) speaks, it should be assumed that it is mere 'chatter'. I'm also really unhappy with the idea that a big manly man has to step in to shut up all these hysterically chattering women, otherwise where would the world be, eh?

AIBU to take this up with the library/council? I just don't want DD to face the same constant battle that I did, to be taken seriously in life just because she's a woman. I think we owe it to the next generation to challenge this trivialisation of women's opinions.

When have you ever heard the discussions between two men being "chatter"?

Exactly! The answer is never.

OP DH has always sung "the mummies have a philosophical conversation, philosophical conversation, philosophical conversation"

YANBU. My granny used to sing songs about "ten little n**rs" and read me Little Black Sambo.

Who cares, right? Just innocent songs? Of course they're not. Just have a quiet word with rhyme time leader, like "am a bit bothered about the sexist language, could we maybe sing xx words instead?"

TBH I rarely hear the word 'chatter' in relation to anything at all.

You can defo suggest they change it. I sing 'nut roast' instead of 'roast beef' in this little piggy- I don't eat meat

Bab I'm not sure "chatting on a bus" and wearing pink are entirely correlated.

OP I have often referred and heard it referred to as "chatting" when practiced by men. My DH will often "chat" at the school gates with other dads and mums - and would presumably therefore also chat on the bus.

I'm afraid I think if you complained you would mark yourself out as tiresome at best.

Once you are back at work in your "senior position" these little trials will seem a world away. I don't think that singing an age old nursery rhyme in its original format will set your DD up for a lifelong battle to be taken seriously.

I am on a bus right now. The driver has pulled over and is calling the Police as two of the Daddies are having a fight. I always thought 'Goosey Goosey Gander' was rather disturbing- encouraging children to throw someone down the stairs for not saying their prayers

Chatter chatter chatter would be the most relevant thing to describe me and my friends.

YABU

The daddies on the bus go snore snore snore here.

I think you're overthinking this. Why don't you think of alternative rhymes with your dc at home: what else could the mummies do on the bus?

Maybe in your world Vague. Personally, I've never heard anyone say 'chatter' or 'chattering'. I have however, heard both men and women say 'chat' and 'chatting'.

Oh Bab that's rather an unpleasant and dismissive assumption!

We disagree with the OP and therefore we're all gender stereotyping, down trodden little women?

My DD, has a strong sense of personal style. She wears a pink frilly dress about as regularly as I do.

I'm strongly feminist. I have twins, a DD and a DS. Hell will freeze over before I allow anyone to stop my DD doing something 'because she is a girl' or allow my DS to treat her or any other girl as less because they don't have a penis.

There are fights to be fought, I just don't happen to think this warrants a complaint.

The OP would do better to suggest to the librarian the children get the choice of action for each character eg reading a book, bouncing up and down, clapping their hands, humming a tune. That's what our sing and sign group did.

Funny, vvviola, it always used to be "I'll be back in the morning with the bill, bill, bill"!

At my DD's nursery we also have "the babies on the bus go fast asleep." Which is obviously a totally fallacy. Relax, have a and realise it is just a song.

Change the words then. Ask the coordinator to change the roles. We used to sing the babies go waa waa waa and the daddies to go shhh shhh shhh and the people to go chatter chatter chatter and the children bounce up and down.

We always sang 'chat chat chat.' No shushing goes on but the driver says 'stop that noise!' to the children yelling 'partytime.'

I'm an educated professional (though that isn't relevant, see below). I still like to chat with my friends.

I agree that sexism and stereotyping is insidious and we should not accept any version of it.

But I don't think the version we sing is either of those things.

But this...

Yes, I am a mother, but I am also educated to Post Grad level and have a bunch of fairly heavyweight professional qualifications too. Prior to having DD, I held a senior position in a very male dominated field and really resent the implication that when a woman (who may or may not have children) speaks, it should be assumed that it is mere 'chatter'

If I'm honest, OP. I bristled slightly at this. ^^

It is something I see often, that a woman qualifies her 'right' to speak out against what she perceives as sexism by citing how successful and professional she is. The 'yes I'm a mother, but…' as though just being a mother doesn't qualify you to speak out. There's an unspoken suggestion that if you are, for example, a SAHM, had no qualifications or a minimum wage job or something, then you perhaps don't have the same 'right' to speak out.

You found the the nursery rhyme irritating, OP. I have to say that your opening bit above did a similar thing to me.

My children are older but this always used to bug the fuck out of me too, but choose your battles I guess.

I used to change it to - the mummies on the bus go "let's go to the pub, let's go to the pub, let's go to the pub"

TOTALLY agree with you on this though I just don't want DD to face the same constant battle that I did, to be taken seriously in life just because she's a woman. I think we owe it to the next generation to challenge this trivialisation of women's opinions

*Hoolie' #The daddies on the bus are cuffed and charged, cuffed and charged#

I've heard chatter and chat used by men and about men loads of times.

Gah I used to hate Wheels on the Bus. The annoying sexism just exacerbated the agony of it also having the most annoying tune ever and going on for several years.

I LOVE "The mummies on the bus shout equal pay!"

Maybe I should have another baby just so I can go back toddler group armed with that :o

I thought the versions of 'Miss Polly had a dolly' were English vs Irish. I grew up with 'I'll be back in the morning with my bill, bill, bill' and thought it natural, as you pay for GP visits in Ireland. The 'if she's still feeling ill' version does depart into complete fantasy, obviously, with the idea of repeated GP home visits to check on the exact state of health of a dolly. 'Free at the point of use' or not.

MissHoolies, my three year old asked me quite seriously if you were really allowed to throw people down the stairs by their leg if they didn't say their prayers. And then (atheist household) we had to have a conversation about what saying your prayers meant, and it got very philosophical. I think DS ended up with the idea that praying is rather like writing a letter to Santa Claus...

Just to clarify - is is just post grad qualified porofessional women who used to hold down highly paid jobs in a male dominated field who don't chatter? Maybe the less educated do?

In ours the mummies chatter, the grannies knit, the babies cry, the daddies say 'stop that noise', the children go up and down.....

I more object to the stereotype of grannies knitting as I'm an avid knitter. I also find the daddies saying 'stop that noise' way too domineering. But mummies chatting has never concerned me. The babies crying was very apt for me as my DS was a high-needs always-crying baby until he was 2.

Just to clarify - is is just post grad qualified professional women who used to hold down highly paid jobs in a male dominated field who don't chatter?

I usually pontificate when I'm on buses, to be fair, but it doesn't scan.

Us men don't chat. We sit in stony silence with the occasional neolithic grunt and head motion.

but of course, that may be a sexist and steretypical comment too

I think you are fairly safe with the Speckled Frogs on their logs.

But isn't that offensive to frogs which don't eat delicious grubs, vegatarian ones?
And how do they know they are the most delicious ones, surely it's false advertising to little (poresumably child) frogs?