"The Mummies on the Bus go chatter, chatter chatter" Really?

[BespokeStereophonicVinyl]

So, I attend a regular nursery rhyme session at my local library and 'The Wheels on the Bus' now seems to comprise the above delight, together with the equally offensive "The Daddies on the bus go shush, shush, shush"

I'm really bristling at this example of everyday sexism. Yes, I am a mother, but I am also educated to Post Grad level and have a bunch of fairly heavyweight professional qualifications too. Prior to having DD, I held a senior position in a very male dominated field and really resent the implication that when a woman (who may or may not have children) speaks, it should be assumed that it is mere 'chatter'. I'm also really unhappy with the idea that a big manly man has to step in to shut up all these hysterically chattering women, otherwise where would the world be, eh?

AIBU to take this up with the library/council? I just don't want DD to face the same constant battle that I did, to be taken seriously in life just because she's a woman. I think we owe it to the next generation to challenge this trivialisation of women's opinions.

Pogmella

The first is a beggarman,
The second is a thief,
The third is a pirate,
And the fourth a robber chief
Now, how should we update this little poem? Lots of "men" in there

There is only 1 man in that - the beggar man.

I've never heard that before I'm not trying to be clever or anything but "thief" doesn't suggest either sex to me;

Pirate doesn't either- bizarrely Geena Davis in Cut Throat Island popped into my head.

Robber chief- the girl who was the leader of the robber band in The Snow Queen (the proper Hans Christian Anderson one)

Or Pogmella you start believing that non-issues like this one are a real problem and then you start seeing problems everywhere.

It is everywhere, that's the point.... It's in conversation, images, songs, slogans, ads, stories, designations, traditions, everything. That mummies "chat" and daddies say shush or go to sleep is a tiny, tiny example, is absolutely true. But s Bertrand said, if you think those little tiny examples don't matter, then when do they start to matter, how big do they have to be?

No there is nothing wrong with chatting and mummies do chat on the bus, the point is it's reinforcing a stereotype and we are not going to move away from people actually acting out that stereotype unless it is challenged and altered on many tiny levels.

I like Pogmella also find myself programmed to make sexist assumptions and hate it. But being a feminist for me means always trying to spot and challenge and reverse that deeply ingrained bias that soaks into us all from birth onwards. As time goes on, and other women/feminists bring more things to my attention, I get better at spotting it. That's what old-style feminists meant by "consciousness raising". I appreciate other women doing it, things like the everyday sexism project. It doesn't mean they are mansplaining to me or patronising me. It helps me see more and more.

And another point – I do think these stereotypes also apply very much to boys and men and that that is equally disastrous. Boys are associated with crime, "trouble", "rascal", "cheeky" and so on, as well as with being proactive, successful and in control. The long term impacts for men include things like finding it hard to admit vulnerability, feeling threatened by female success, horrendous male suicide rates etc because men cannot reach out as easily, and so on.

Feminism is about achieving equality – dictionary definition, not me mansplaining to you what feminism is. Equality is for both/all genders.

I'm a teacher. I change the lyrics - mummies look at the view, daddies talk on the phone. My version isn't amazing (just an on the spot, made up one!) but I agree about it needing a (proper) re-write. It is very poor for gender stereotypes.

I agree about it needing a (proper) re-write. It is very poor for gender stereotypes.

It has had a rewrite. The version I used for my son 25 years ago only had the noises made by inanimate objects which were part of the bus and babies going wah, wah, wah. The song itself dates from the late 30s and didn't have mummies chattering and daddies shushing.

PrimaryTeacher there are a lot of people who have posted on here who would agree with you changing the lyrics.
Seems some people may be tired and grouchy. I'll take the jammy dodgers you've been not so kindly offered & dunk them in my hot choc

Doesn't bother me, think you've over thought it! but like Guiness I've changed to cuddle cuddle cuddle or sometimes tickle depending on my boy's mood

Thanks Teatime. I'm always happy to have a biscuit but I'll share.

I don't mind if others don't agree, but I try really hard not to perpetuate gender stereotypes because it's against my values. If it makes no sense to others, so be it.

Mmmmm jammy dodger...

Where I live all the baby groups I went to had the mummies chatting and the driver saying "move on down" - interesting to hear it's not the same everywhere. The other one that annoys me is the one about "This is the way the ladies ride... trit trot, trit trot... This is the way the gentlemen ride.... gallopy gallopy..." I always swap genders for that one so it's the ladies galloping

AlasAlas2 what you say would be reasonable if this were a traditional rhyme which if analysed from a modern perspective appeared sexist. Here a rhyme which was not originally gendered seems to have been rewritten to be so.

It is not comparable to Polly put the kettle on.

I disagree. I think these subtle messages are really powerful.
I would like to have an agreed new version so we are all singing the same one though, that's a fair point!

Going to gallop off to bed now

Alas the kids aren't deconstructing the nursery rhyme they are taking the words verbatim and constructing their core beliefs for life. Any child expecting me to 'chatter' will be disappointed.

As someone posted earlier 'chatter' is to talk of inconsequential subjects. Personally I find 'chatter' difficult but my core beliefs were formed in the presence of a strong woman who never 'chattered' in her life but did change this country a bit for the better (and no you've never heard of her as a man took the credit).

And with that tired and grumpy rant I'm off to sleep

NO the toddlers won't be analyzing it op. Nor the other millions of tiny pieces of everyday sexism they seem all the time.

Just a coincidence that sexism happens.. and that children are aware of gender stereotypes from a very young age.

We sing it as:
Wheels go round
Wipers go swish
Children go up and down
Babies go wah, wah, wah
Daddies go shush, shush, shush (to the babies)
Mummies say I love you,
Driver says tickets please

We also say 'all through the town' not 'all day long'

If the words bother you just change them, they are not set in stone!

Children are educated at a very young age into how society sees women and men. It happens in lots of ways, including what they observe, hear and yes the stories and songs they are told. But few see this and think all of these individual examples are petty.

I'm offended Alasalas2.. "Shush" to a young person is to reinforce a societal perception that mummy = Harpy. It serves to compounded the stereotype of mummy (the primary caregiver - OBVIOUSLY) as censorial and oppressive within the indoor arena . Whereas daddy is not present - he is active in the world, fun and seeking not to restrict the children's natural, play instinct....... Unacceptable I'm afraid, can you think of another?

I suggest -- 'Mummies on the bus, turn the pages of the Financial Times swoosh, swoosh, swoosh'? But not 'all day long' obviously as that implies mummy = the bitch, the career obsessed, neglectful, narcissistic ball breaker.