To think all tax avoiders should be sought out and punished

[cdtaylornats]

Especially those who cheat on VAT or income tax by paying or accepting cash in hand.

ISAs aren't really tax avoidance, they're tax free savings.

Why do people get so uptight about cash in hand. Accepting cash is not illegal, a babysitter, cleaner, gardener etc accepting cash is only the same as Tesco accepting cash when you go in for your milk.
The illegal part is not declaring this as income and paying the correct tax. My DW has a cleaning business and about 60% of the receipts each month is cash. However all of this is declared to HMRC and the correct tax is paid. Why should she not be allowed to accept cash op just because some people use this as a method to avoid tax.

This is from the Angry Britain Twitter page... A simple guide to what's legal and what's illegal.

I feel that it's fairer to concentate on th likes of Google, Amazon or Starbucks who do not pay their fair share of tax.

Totally agree - sadly HMRC don't seem too bothered about the big companies.

Agree completely Pizza ...... Me paying cash for goods or services is not a problem, whether that's for your DW to clean my house or Tesco to deliver my monthly shop. It's whether DW and Tesco declare that income that's the issue.

But we're not the first to say, there's a difference between legally avoiding and illegally evading tax. But since when have facts stood in the way of a good story

Agree with PizzaPower - careful what you wish for. Pretty soon, you won't be able to pay for a newspaper in cash, HMRC will examine all your accounts and take tax out of your account at source (and will balls up a significant amount) - and Sir Bufton Tufton and his mates will still be stashing it all offshore.

No. Tax avoiders shouldn't be punished.

There is a huge difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion! We have been self employed for years, when I do our tax returns I claim all the legitimate expenses I can to keep our bill down - legal.
If I did not declare all our income (including cash payments and benefits "in kind") or claimed for made up expenses, that would be illegal.

As for cash payments, we find it is the customers who ask if they can pay cash....so they can avoid paying vat. We say no, and have lost work because of it. Imo those who ask a trader to accept cash so they can avoid vat are just as guilty.

avery you highlight the important aspect of the cash payment thing. When people know/seek a cheaper price for cash in hand then they are just as guilty as the vendor accepting it because both parties are participating in the transaction that they know won't be declared. This is tax evasion, not avoidance and I believe that it is being looked on this way now (both parties guilty, not only the business not declaring income) by HMRC.

I often pay traders in cash, it's not to avoid anything, it's because I prefer using cash.

Before the pitchforks get readied, being paid in cash is not the same as not paying tax.

When I ran a business, all payments were taxed. But I may have charged someone a slight bit less if they paid in cash, as it allowed me to have some cash in the business, rather than having to cash a cheque (which was a trip to the bank).

Nice idea but how would you suggest this is done - would probably cost more in manpower wages than you would collect
HMRC have got enough staff to even answer telephones - ever tried ringing them

I think we should tightened the loopholes that let the mega corps and super rich avoid (legally, but not morally) paying tax.
Hopefully that would then cascade down.
Tax invasion should also be minimised, but not where it is going to cost more to claim the tax than is collected in revenues.

As for cash payments, we find it is the customers who ask if they can pay cash....so they can avoid paying vat.

We'd take the cash and write the receipt after they'd gone, so they thought they'd evaded VAT (when it was 15%).

I learned a lot about society over the years, by the people who tried to avoid VAT ... certainly that policemen have a very flexible approach to "the law".

Before the pitchforks get readied, being paid in cash is not the same as not paying tax.
Absolutely. It works better for my clients to pay me in cash. Everything gets declared to hmrc.

There is a difference ISAs operate exactly as planned as does duty free. The ones I would target are the cash in hand traders and their customers who don't pay tax by performing an illegal transaction.

I wonder how many people who have been having a go at politicians pay for something in cash to avoid VAT.

The ones I would target are the cash in hand traders and their customers who don't pay tax by performing an illegal transaction.

Do you see their tax returns? Do you know for a fact they don't pay tax?

It's not the customers problem whether the person they pay (quite legally) in cash is submitting their VAT returns properly.

To widen the debate, it's worth noting that whatever happens, the bottom line is you are asking those that make the rules, to obey them.

So far, so good, so instinctively right.

However, as emerged last week, those that make the rules have an advantage over the rest of us plebs in that they can make the rules to their advantage.

Exhibit A would be the news that it was David Cameron in particular "on behalf" of the UK who lobbied to ensure that beneficial owners of offshore trusts were protected

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/07/david-cameron-argued-to-water-down-transparency-rules-over-trust/

trying to hold an elected official to adhere to rules the elected official makes is like a game of whack-a-mole.

Quis custodiet custodes and all.

It's not the customers problem whether the person they pay (quite legally) in cash is submitting their VAT returns properly.

This. ^^

One of the biggest self-delusions the English have is they "live and let live". Bollocks. When my farther moved to the UK, it was one of the first differences he noted between his home country, and England - the fascination people seem to have with their neighbours business. As a slew of celebrity magazines and injunctions would seem to demonstrate.

A while back, I had the pleasure of listening to a debate on the local radio, and the presenter (for whom the phrase "stuck up" was tailor made) was moaning how she would love to have her car washed by a proper hand-wash outfit, but she wouldn't because they're all Eastern European, and you have to pay cash, and they won't pay tax. In a rare example of being glad to be stuck in traffic, I was able to hear some of the callers rip her a new one .

Lurkinghusband - the problem for us is when we have put in a quotation, then the customer asks if they can pay cash to avoid "the Osborne tax" as one called it. If we then accept cash but pay VAT anyway, we are 20% down on the job, not a viable way to do business.

One accepted the quote, including vat, then when presented with the invoice gave us cash for the total excluding vat, refusing to pay any vat at all. We ended up walking off the job, some £1800 out of pocket.

As for it suiting our customers to pay cash, well as most of our work is for projects of average value 30 -40k, so who has that sort of cash? other than drug dealers

In my opinion, it should be illegal for customers to try to avoid vat by offering sometimes demanding to pay cash.

Bit of a derail, but notamummy10 I thought prostitution was legal - soliciting is illegal isn't it?

Oh ffs not this again.
There are a number of small businesses who completely legitimately operate below the VAT threshold because they genuinely do not have a high enough turn over to hit the limit for registration ( currently £83,000 to register due to turnover or bringing goods into UK, £70,000 for distance selling into the UK and a deregistration threshold if your turnover drops below £81,000).
It is perfectly plausible for a business to even have an employee or two and still not meet the threshold. The ability to produce a VAT receipt is not proof of fiddling taxes.

Nor is dealing in cash. So long as it is all declared in the business owners annual tax return.

Working for cash doing anything that isn't illegal is legal.
Not declaring it is illegal.
Lots of people pay our business in cash, people pay cash in shops.
Tarmacing driveways for cash is quite legal, my dmil is paying cash.
if the people she pays don't declare it, it's hardly her fault.
I think if they are reputable companies they will be paying tax, however paid.