E-cig/vaping around baby

[wispywoo1]

I'm very anti-smoking so I don't know if I am being rational about this. My DM was watching my DD today and her friend was vaping whist my 4month old DD was in the room. I could smell it when I walked in so it definitely gives off some form of chemical. I want to ask my DM to speak with her friend and ask her to do it outside if the baby is there which is most times she visits as we live very close. It made me think whether my mum does it when she minds DD which is quite often. I know my mum will say they're harmless and won't know how to approach this with her friend. Before I say anything I'd prefer to know whether IABU. Would you accept this around your baby? I know loads will say they do it but is it actually safe?! They used to think cigarettes were safe etc.

My DP likes to do this and I'm super proud of him for not smoking real tobacco but the bloody thing gives me a headache and I don't want my baby inhaling nicotine! His ecig leaves a cloud of smoke in the whole room and I tell him every time not to do it, sometimes he listens but sometimes he doesn't - YANBU, you have my sympathies and understanding :)

I don't think YABU. I know it might be seen as a little PFB but I don't see a reason to make DCs berate in those vapour, harmless or not (and is there enough research yet to conclusively prove there's no risk/harm from them?).

If you're desperate enough for a cig/e-cig, go and stand outside.

I wouldn't do it, but I don't think it's the end of the world either.

It's probably more comparable to an air freshener than an actual fag.

I'm v chilled out about a lot of things but I would not be happy about this. Not enough research has been done yet. I think you should say something.

I wouldn't want to be in same room as someone vaping - they stink of synthetic crap - and certainly wouldn't want my 4 month old baby in the same room as one.

The research isn't definitive at this stage, is it?

It certainly isn't as risky as cigarette smoke at all. However, there are flavours/smells in some of them so it is akin, as someone else said, to using an air freshener perhaps. I don't use these as they are associated with asthma, as are all those scented pongy fresheners and plug ins, but millions still do so I'm guessing they all think the risk is absolutely minimal compared to their houses smelling of vanilla or whatever.

Yanbu. On the face of it there hasn't been enough research into the long-term effects or consequences to conclusively decide. In the meantime; the cloud of smoke is detectable and even causes me to fee al little choked up so no doubt it's not best to vape in the presence of a little one.

There is absolutely no research on this at all so I think they should be banned indoors, in the same way as proper cigarettes. I would not be happy at all. If DM won't protect your baby from inhaling toxic fumes then I'd be stopping unsupervised visits tbh. She needs to put the health of a baby above smoking ecigs. I would have been majorly pissed off that they were that bloody stupid tbh.

Not only the concerns about the toxins etc (and I agree we know NOTHING about longer term effects) ... but I also worry about the 'normalisation' of smoking so i insist DH uses his in the back lobby with aback door open/outside the house - well away from me and kids. I do not want my kids growing up thinking any form of smoking is acceptable...

Adrenaline just to be clear, there is no 'smoke'. It's vapour, like you get from a kettle.

Smoke is indeed dangerous, as it has carbon monoxide in it, but there is no smoke from an e-cig.

It's not true to say there's no research or that we don't know what is in the vapour- what we don't know is any long term effects.

As I say, there are known effects on children of using plug-ins and scented candles on air quality and asthma/allergies, but people don't recoil, refuse to take their children round there or sigh in disgust at someone using a plug-in, do they?

I agree. Not enough research in my opinion - in fact, I
bet they get banned in years to come!

YANBU.

"but people don't recoil, refuse to take their children round there or sigh in disgust at someone using a plug-in, do they?"

None of my friends use these either.

I know the whole 'it's just water vapour' argument. But if I smell it, it's not just water, is it? I wouldn't want someone spraying Febreeze in DD's face, I don't want rank strawberry vanilla either.

HP you definitely have a point but I think that E-cig give off a lot more than an air freshener in a short space of time. You can see a cloud. I could be totally wrong though as air fresheners do smell a lot stronger. I think I'll say something. My mum will think I'm being totally OTT and PFB but there just isn't enough research. I doubt my DM does use it herself but maybe by me saying about her friend she will stop herself if she does occasionally. I hate confrontation like this!

Mrs I know what you mean, and I would think politeness rather than anything else would mean she would stop.

There are lots of things that affect indoor air quality, cleaning products, air fresheners, polish sprays, plug-ins, scented candles. Most people don't worry about their children's exposure to these and most people don't perceive people who use them as harming others, even though they may well be esp if they have asthma/allergies.

I would ask your mum to ask her friend to vape outside or elsewhere in the house if you don't want it around.

Horrid strawberry is indeed horrid, I find my friend's vanilla plug-in absolutely rank and don't know why you would want your house to smell like that but I would never say anything to her.

I am generally relaxed about things, but I wouldn't want somebody using an e-cig around ds who is 7 months. I have a few friends that use them and they always go outside when they come over.

There has actually been a huge amount of research into e cigarettes and vaping. The only thing that cannot be researched is the long term effects because it is a relatively new product. However people are still giving vapers the stink eye and saying they are just as bad as cigarettes- which they arent.

Vape Juice is made of:

Vegetable Glycerin - that is what produces the 'smoke' or vapour that the user breathes in.
Propylene Glycol - (as used in Asthma Inhalers) which carries the flavour to the user.
Flavouring - which must be certified as 'food grade'
And pharmaceutical nicotine - at a much lower level than cigarettes. In fact a great number of vapers use 0% nicotine.

None of those ingredients are harmful in the air, in fact they are less harmful than the smells from liquid air fresheners that dont have to be food grade.

I'd simply be happy that my DM had stopped smoking and was providing me with free childcare.

The vapour is much safer than smoke but not risk free. If your mum insists there is no harm in vaping around your baby ask her to have a vape but blow the vapour onto a clean piece of glass, then when finished to run her finger through it, the sticky filmy stuff that is left is the allegedly harmless PG/VG residue that she is breathing into her lungs and exposing your baby's lungs too. They are even now making products specifically to clean the sticky residue off the inside of car windows.

The only thing that is a safe to go into your babies lungs is clean fresh air.

Unfortunately that's unlikely to happen most of the time and in our polluted world there are many risks. Air pollution from traffic, cigarette smoke, vaping, air fresheners, hairspray to name a few.

Some you will have control over others you wont. You are entirely reasonable to ask people to not smoke, vape, or overdo air fresheners, or use other sprays (hairspray/deodorant) directly around your baby, especially in places she frequently visits.

Whilst I am, as usual, annoyed at the misinformation and scaremongering about vaping and would ask anyone who believes it is dangerous to consider also never ever using any other perfumed product: air freshener, perfume, candles, cleaning products, soaps, shampoos, many foodstuffs, etc etc etc... after all they use the same ingredients... some less 'safe'!

... I would agree that if you have a newborn you are never BU to as someone to stop doing something you don't like around them!

There's no reliable research because it is not highly regulated so the effects of inhalation of various ingredients aren't really known.

The vaping lobby is also pretty unrestricted in being allowed to promote their products, unlike the tobacco industry, and currently have a propaganda campaign not unlike that the tobacco companies waged when people it was first claimed cigarettes were harmful.

Unfortunately a lot of people swallow the vaping industries spin whole and you always get several posters on these threads repeating parrot fashion that it's perfectly safe and quoting dubious 'science' and fabricated claims re safety and research which come directly from vaping companies

I work at a Uni where some research is being done on vaping currently, the scientists working on that are pretty much unanimous that although they are probably an improvement on actual smoking, they are probably not harmless either so non-smokers and in particular the elderly, very young and those with health problems shouldn't be exposed.

So do you also discount the NHS's own research then Bill?

Public Health England www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/457102/Ecigarettes_an_evidence_update_A_report_commissioned_by_Public_Health_England_FINAL.pdf

That says the same thing. It says it's safer than smoking. It doesn't say it's 'safe'.

YANBU but don't worry too much about health risks.

Public Health England reviewed all the evidence on ecigs late last year and concluded, EC release negligible levels of nicotine into ambient air with no identified health risks to bystanders.

It's not nicotine you need to worry about. With smoking, the danger comes from the carbon monoxide and the tar, neither of which are present with vaping. Vaping has not been proven 100% safe because nothing ever has been. Science can only look for evidence of harm, it can't prove anything is harmless. No evidence of harm has yet been found for vaping, or being around vapers. There are a few small, theoretical risks that have been identified, mostly around some of the flavourings used in some ecigs. The risks are well within the range of the normal risks we all take being around household chemicals and for those who are just around vapers and are not vapers themselves, are really not worth worrying about.

However YANBU. You probably don't want this behaviour around your baby and that's absolutely fair enough. DNephew has just become a dad and we (big family of ex-smokers, now mostly vapers) don't vape around the baby.

Going in another room is a good compromise. There really aren't any measurable health risks but it keeps it out of sight.

No. It's not on. Get it stopped. Make them vape outside. Who on earth thinks this is OK around a baby.