Mum's new dog and dc's, AIBU?

[minifingerz]

Gah, big strops going down all over the place because db and I have raised concerns about my elderly mum's new rescue dog and it's reliability around children. It's a beagle/jack russell cross, four years old, and it's behaviour is quite concerning (at least me and db think so). Mum and sister (who live together) describe the dog as 'nervous' and just needs time to settle in (they've had it for six weeks) but its behaviour is actually more complex than that. Things which it does:

• constant, bold thieving, including sticking its snout into your tea cup while you're holding it and slurping your tea
• walking around the kitchen on its hind legs looking for food to snaffle off the side (note - it's not underfed)
• jumping on your lap when you sit down and staring into your face
• staring at you in a concentrated manner
• jumping up onto the back of the sofa when you're sitting there so its standing above you
• growling at the children when they're on the other side of the room and not doing anything more than looking at it (doesn't do this all the time but has done it 4 or 5 times)
• running after and nipping the elbow of two of the children as they were walking away from it.
• hurling itself at smaller dogs on walks who come anywhere near it and trying to savage them.

To me that says 'aggressive dog' and I'm concerned about having it around my children. However, my mum is elderly and would be very upset if I didn't bring the children around, so under strict instruction to LEAVE THE DOG ALONE we are still going around. DCs are 10, 12 and 16, so not tiny. However, brother's dc's are younger - 6 and 8, and he is massively reluctant to take them around to my mum's.

After this first all came up mum went and got a cage, and has kept the dog in it when my kids come around, but as I knew she would, she ends up letting it out after a few hours because she feels sorry for it. Sure enough, within 5 minutes it's sitting on ds's lap staring at him, while he looks frozen with fear.

Sister and mum are angry with me for 'making a fuss' about it. They think the dog just needs time to settle in. I think the dog needs to see a behaviourist, and after pissing them off by mentioning this every time I've been round, they've now reluctantly made an appointment with one, five weeks after I first suggested it, and only after it had nipped two of the children on two separate occasions..

My sister is really quite angry with my brother and me for talking about it behind hers and mums backs, but they both get so wound up about it - mum in particular is HUGELY over sensitive to any criticism of the dog, that you can't have a sensible conversation with them. This morning my sister got cross with me and insisted that she would 'monitor the dog constantly' while the children were round, to which I responded that unless she's standing over it 100% of the time with her hand on its collar every time it comes near a child then she can't guarantee it's not going to bite their faces.

So, am I being a fuss pot about the dog, and is my brother being unreasonable not to bring his children even if my mum promises to crate it while they're there, because my mum can't be trusted to keep it in the crate, and because both dsis and dm are trivialising the risk to the children because its inconvenient and annoying to them to have to deal with the dog's difficult behaviour around kids?

Just be clear with your mum - put the dog away and we'll visit.
The second the dog comes out, leave, like IceBeing said.
If she's sad and lonely she'll soon get the message.

Would add, the kids are really sensible around the dog and give it a very wide berth. The youngest grandchild is 6 and the rest are between 8 - 16, so it's not like the dog is being mauled by sticky toddlers.

If she's sad and lonely, it's her own stupid fault.
You say the dog nips at you when you're WALKING AWAY, so it's hardly being provoked!
Not a chance in hell would I be taking kids round there with an unpredictable dog like that.
If she wants you to visit, and wants company so she's not "sad and lonely", then she should put the dog away for your visit.
The second she lets him out, I'd be leaving. She'll soon get the message if she wants you to visit.

I have always had dogs and grew up with Jack Russells and I think some of the things you describe would concern me but most would not and I do think you are being OTT. The only concerning things are growling and nipping, stealing food is just a trait of the breed and you're unlikely to train an adult dog out of this. With the growling and nipping hopefully a behaviourist can help.

Instead of a cage can't your DM and DSis keep the dog in another room/ the garden during your children's visits?

PP who said the dog should be put down are way OTT! Why would you kill a dog for any of the reasons OP listed?

I think your dm should seek help with her dog's behaviour. In the meantime I'd recommend that you don't have it near you or your children. Doesn't have to be crated, in a separate room with the door shut will do - or let her visit you.

Forget the "sad and lonely" bullshit. She can act responsibly and have her family round her or devote herself to her dog if that's more important than her grandchildren.

(note: I was badly bitten by a dog many years ago so tend to be quite clear about my priorities).

I'd love to know why the poster things the dog should be put down? Wow! Check out the compassion there!

It's a rescue dog it's bound to have some issues, the bad behaviour jumping on furniture, stealing food are pretty standard in untrained dogs. Get a trainer, and you'll see a drastic improvement.

My mums dog growls at my DS when the dog is grumpy. My DS is pretty good in the sense that he doesn't trouble the dog, won't touch him unless an adult says yes. Maybe the nipping is playful, not menacing in which case some strong rules and boundaries need to be set up.

Can you not compromise and get a stair gate to keep the dog dog confined to another room while the grandchildren visit.

After all it's your mums house, I don't think you have any business telling her she shouldn't have the dog. Don't like it don't go there.

We have 2 dogs, one of them is pretty hard work when we have visitors as she won't stop fetching things and barking. We just keep her out of the room for the duration of the visit.

Would it be impossible to shut the dog in another room if the crate seems too mean?

6 weeks isn't long at all for a rescue dog. We rescued a staffy-x and it took her months to settle properly, relax, come out of her shell and be a "normal" dog.

That said, she never exhibited any nervous/territorial behaviour and was always a very friendly soft-as-muck beast. Even so, I consulted a trainer/behaviourist immediately we brought her home, to observe her behaviour and offer advice, as we had no clue whatsoever about her background.

A crate is an excellent idea - it protects DCs from nippy dog, and also offers the dog a safe haven from scary things. If the dog isn't used to children, or becomes nervous when there are strangers around, it is the best thing for the dog to be in a crate in a quiet room. Your Dm & DSis should absolutely NOT be feeling sorry for him and letting him out. Most dogs love their crates - it is their safe place.

In your shoes I would say I was happy to bring DCs round, but only if dog is crated. As soon as dog is let out of crate I would say Sorry but we have to leave now unless dog goes back in crate.

"I don't think you have any business telling her she shouldn't have the dog."

We haven't.

" Don't like it don't go there."

This is what my brother has been doing - not taking the kids over. Mum is very angry and unhappy about this.

Honestly, your Mum's reaction to your DB not taking his kids over is entirely of her own doing, so I don't really have much sympathy there. Your DB has made his views quite clear, and your Mum has a choice - it's not "mean" to crate the dog.

I guess it comes down to what matters more to her - seeing her son and grandchildren for a few hours, and putting dog in nice comfy crate with toys and a chew to relax and snooze for a few hours - or not seeing son/grandchildren.

She really can't have it both ways. Your DB is putting his DCs first. Your Mum wants to put her dog first. Ain't gonna work!

My brother years ago had a rescue dog. My DCs were around 14, 12 and 8.

One Christmas they were virtually marooned on the sofa because the dog went for their feet every time they moved. He was never properly trained - spoilt would be the right term.

I would just ask your DM and DSis, that whilst you appreciate their love for their dog, is that really greater than their love for the children? If not, then get the damn thing trained. Which would make for a happier dog.

If they won't then they see the children in the children's houses or out. No arguments.

Have recently been round rescue centre looking for cats. Many said "not suitable for a household with children"

It could be that DM and Sis have a dog which they passed muster for specifically because there are no children at home, and aren't letting on to you and DB in which case they are being very unreasonable and irresponsible and unfair to the dog.

If they had regular GC visits they should have mentioned this to the rescue centre. Chances are they didn't.

At the very least, he needs to be crated when the children are there.

We had a "nervous" beagle rescue that bit my daughter. She has shown no signs of trauma and the beagle was rehomed (by the rescue) to a retired couple without children/grandchildren, where he is very happy spoiled. :) Best case scenario. It could have been so much worse.

YANBU

Growling for no apparent reason (there will be a reason the dog is growling of course, but what I mean is 'growling without obvious provocation) and chasing after the children to nip them from behind are extremely worrying behaviours.

The dog's behaviour around food needs to be assessed, it could be anything from lack of manners due to lack of training, to resource guarding.

Add to the above that your DM and DS do not seem to be aware of the urgency of the problem and the need to protect the DCs and you have the perfect storm for a more serious bite.

I wouldn't take my DCs where this dog lives.

It's not fair on the dog either.

My neighbours had three dogs, one of which was very snappy and had bitten most members of their family over the years- that one was never ever allowed near our children, was always put away/shut in another room when visitors came and so forth, not just for our sakes but for the dogs sake as they had learned to deal with its behaviour and didn't want it put down when it was a loved member of the family. The other two dogs were delightful and socialized, so it wasn't to do with training, the dog just remained nervous, nippy and attacked (it was tiny) all its life.

Be firm with your mum, this is the time you just have to set your limit and stick to it. I had to do this with my dad over something different (his behaviour, not the dogs!), it was uncomfortable, he was very put out, and it has taken some time to overcome it, but if you have a boundary, it just has to be upheld when your children's wellbeing is at stake.

"The moment she opens the cage and lets the dog out you take your kids and you leave. Repeat until she gets the message."

Absolutely this & well done your brother for not taking his kids there atm.

Of course also after a few hours the dog needs to come out of the crate, so I don't blame your mum for that, but then the visit ends.

The poster near the beginning of this thread who said the dog should be put down was responding to another poster who said their mother's dog had bitten people. Not the OP's dog.

I would echo what others have said here. When the dog is let out of the crate it's time to leave.