To not fully understand "cultural appropriation"

[hettyGreek]

It seems like its a US phrase that is slowly getting adopted in the UK.

For the most part I just don't get it. If something is racist just call it racist.

I don't have any issue with someone white having dreadlocks for instance. These have been worn by many people of different cultures across the earth. Or am I missing something? If anything its funny if one culture try to take ownership of something that has a very mixed origin.

I meant to add I think the objection to the wearing of sacred native american headdresses is completely inappropriate though. I probably would avoid corn rows personally etc if they do have the potential to offend.

Arghh cant type- completely appropriate!

I can't link on this tablet but Google Giuliani rancic and zendaya
There's quite alot of literature comes up that should be self explanatory

Who came up with the term?

Primarily, White American Middle Class students.

ridingabike it seems like you're being deliberately obtuse. If you look at a nice, succinct explanation like DN4GeekinDerby's, what exactly are you taking issue with?

Isn't complaining about CA usually shorthand for "look at how wonderfully enlightened and leftie I am!"

But seriously, I can see that it is a genuine problem with religious symbols such as the cross or Star of David, and probably with American Indian headdresses too. Dreadlocks maybe at a stretch is an issue in some parts of the US? Generally though I think it's fine.

Incidentally, I (white atheist) once wore a thin scarf over my head in Austria to avoid getting a sunburned scalp. I was on the receiving end of a lot of anti Islamic racism, plus pitying looks from Muslim women when they saw this happening.

If you wear a medal of a sort which is still current, sure, that is dishonest and offensive; you are claiming to have won the VC or the MC or whatever when it is not true. If you find and wear a medal which is no longer current such as the Pour la Merite it may be silly but it's not dishonest. And adopting clothing or hair styles from another culture is in the second category; you are not claiming to be what you are not. Like my Asian man in a suit who is not claiming to be European or American.

Whilst I agree some elements of cultural appropriation can potentially be insensitive, I have to wonder where the line is drawn, and who decides whether or not it is in fact cultural appropriation. If a white person wears dreadlocks and one black person objects, is it cultural appropriation? What if 10 black people then say they don't mind and they think it's great?

I agree that it exists - with apologies for invoking Godwin's Law, the Nazis really did a number on the swastika, which is traditionally a symbol for good luck among numerous peoples around the world, especially Hindus and Buddhists. But if you painted one on your door now the police would be round in approximately three seconds.

If it's all the same to you though, I'll keep my weekly Chinese takeaway I love foo yung too much!

Blow you Lockheart you've got me thinking about the dinner which is still too many hours away!

Well I guess the point is, if Kim Kardashian was a black woman, she wouldn't be credited with wearing a style that thousands of black women wear on a daily basis.

Many many years before that Bo Derek wore corn rows in the famous scene in 10 where she was running in the beach. Everyone went nuts for it and all the black women said 'we've been doing that for years'.

I agree that it exists - with apologies for invoking Godwin's Law, the Nazis really did a number on the swastika, which is traditionally a symbol for good luck among numerous peoples around the world, especially Hindus and Buddhists. But if you painted one on your door now the police would be round in approximately three seconds.

My Hindu friend has a wrist band which has a swastika on it. She wore it without thinking and couldn't understand the looks she was getting. She has only lived in the UK for a few years and to her it just meant good luck.

It's a new thing because the sort of people who enjoy taking offence have to come up with new things to be offended by every so often because normally the mainstream catches up with whatever is currently offending them and stops doing it. That spoils their fun as they have nothing to be offended by so they come up with something new and start the cycle all over again.

Sometimes its bullshit and sometimes it isnt.

I dont think people should be accosting people in public to complain about their hairstyle. That guy wasnt oppressing anyone.
I actually have dreads, so do worry a bit about it, as I dont want to offend people, but hippy dreads have developed into a cultural signfier all of their own I think, quite seperate from the rastafarian movement, and tbf, the rastafarian adoption of dreads is from the 1950s, and the hippy movement was really from the 60s so theres not a huge deal in it. Plus the dreads that people wear from black urban rap culture have nothing to do with rasta dreads, nor seem to have spiritual significance, and yet its all accepted as though black culture is just one homogenous thing and white culture is the other homogenous thing.

I cant really get my head round it either

When one of my kids school did a play and they were talking about other cultures, and one of the kids came on wearing a rasta dreadlock wig and tam, I felt more uncomfortable about that, than about my own dreads or other peoples I know, because it felt like mocking and othering rather than joining in and quietly respecting. I think thats how i feel about native american headdresses etc.

Its so complex

I know very little about Kim kardasian but isn't she married to a black man? Can you really appropriate the culture of someone in your own family?

someone said in the last thread that since KK has a daughter who is mixed race, it's actually entirely appropriate for her to wear cornrows. As it's also her dds culture, if that's how you want to look at it, and is nice to have that part of culture seen in her own family.

Sometimes its bullshit and sometimes it isnt.

I think this sums up how I feel about CA.

maybe imitation is flattery, but if you feel offended ,what then ? e.g. i do not like the current use of males modelling clothes for women in fashion shows. What kind of appropriation is that?

one of my kids school did a play and they were talking about other cultures, and one of the kids came on wearing a rasta dreadlock wig and tam

Mugging up as a stereotype is offensive though and on a completely different level from 'cultural appropriation' as it reduces an entire group to a 2D stereotype.

Those people fixated on the hair style issue.... What do you think about cultural appropriation for sacred symbols/religious symbols? (Genuine question not rhetoric).

I thank my lucky stars I live in a culture where such things are acceptable. However, if someone did this to cause offence then naturally it should be disapproved of. But you have to be careful because pretty soon you're acting as the police looking into people's heads to decide what their motivation is for wearing a particular item of clothing/accessory/hair style.

As another poster said who decides whether or not it is in fact cultural appropriation. It won't be the downtrodden and the oppressed.

That cornrows hairstyle way of plaiting hair was very popular on ponies and their girl riders about 10 to 15 years ago, that's where I first saw it.
No undertones or overtones of cultural misappropriation or anything else. It was just a hairstyle worn by little girls and sometimes their ponies too. No-one objected.

Re the Nazi's misappropriation of the Swastika, wasn't it depicted deliberately facing the other way to the Hindu one?

To me this seems like people looking to create a problem, rather than addressing an existing problem.

A example could be in music, where there is now an influx of white soul singers and hip hop artists. Who are often more famous than their black counterparts.

No-one can tell people in society they can only enjoy black people singing white/ soul music. Why can't white artists of these genres be equally respected? (Genuine question.) I know that historically these genres of music were started by black people, but are we to then start issuing boundaries around black/ white classical musicians? What about the arts, acting etc? Only white people in Shakespeare please! I know it's often used to reference minorities but in today's multicultural society, if we are going to actually attempt to make a go of multiculturalism, it must work both ways or resentment (and lunacy) will breed.

Hairstyles - recently Kim Kardashian wore cornrows, and was credited alongside a number of other white celebrities for bringing this hairstyle into the mainstream, when it has for centuries been a well used and practical hairstyle for those with Afro hair.

Nowhere has anyone claimed, ever, that KK is to credited for cornrows. Yes, she sets trends, and this is one of many examples of that. Also, she is of mixed heritage.

I think that people attempting to be too racially sensitive often has the opposite than desired effect, causing more segregation and harm than good. A society where we all influence each other as human beings would be preferable to: "No you can't wear a sari because you're not the right colour", surely?

The first time I heard it used was regarding white hippy 'shamans' who basically mismatch various Native American religious practices and traditions and sell them to other hippies for silly prices. They also use cheesy animal hippy names, often claim they are of native lineage or have been adopted by a tribe and have being chosen as someone who will save the native people.

That is definitely racist, patronising cultural appropriation.

nazeemhussain.com/ check out the 'windians' sketch on his fb page...

I don't get it either.

Bit on Newsnight last night that suggests to me why its an issue...
It seems in the past,the usa ? , some schools have forbid black /AA kids from having hairstyles that are too black,too much like the gangs outside the school gates ,perhaps.
But when a white school kid had a similar style ,
they didn't get told to" cut your hair " ?
Of course this doesn't apply to grown up celebs, but feelings run deep.
Also on Newsnight the lady guest was unable to justify why its ok for Beyonne to copy bollywood but not ok for Elvis Preseley to be king of rock & roll,but she clearly just had an axe to grind rather than follow any logic.

The Native American debate is a bit different,but all the tribes have borrowed / adopted outsiders ( Grey Owl ) so again CO is meaningless,they isn't a tradition going back thousands of years - horses where brought by the spanish .etc .etc .
But perhaps again its all about the money - if people pay for old dream catchers then do the tribe want to copyright the design ?

A hundred years ago the hairdo of choice in my school was Princess Leia's ear doughnuts!

At my Caribbean school we often sang Speed Bonnie Boat.

And my Japanese friend plays classical piano, esp Chopin.