Wrong landlords getting targeted!

[Guiltydilemma]

I know as a landlord I'm unlikely to get much sympathy but feel that myself and my husband are in that bracket that always end up giving to the economy but never getting anything out of it and the the new tax rules for landlords are just the icing on the cake!
We both work and earn just enough not to be eligible for any tax credits and live in a very expensive city which is where we grew up. Average house price for 2 bed flat is about £300k!
We inherited a little money and decided to invest in property as this is the only way I can foresee us being able to help our kids on the ladder, help them if they want to go to university etc. without our help to live in the area they've grown up it will be impossible. we don't earn much and don't get any help from the government apart from child benefit despite our small flat costing 9 times what our combined salary is. We have high mortgages on our rental properties and residential home and now the government is going to screw us over taxing us to the hilt on these! On the other hand my friend who has several buy to let properties mortgage free is going to be unaffected by the new tax rules! How is that fair!!! For this that aren't aware of the way the new rules are going to work the government are going to decrease over the next few years the amount of mortgage interest you can offset as an expense! Grrrr

Yeah actually quite a few of my friends had 110% mortgages and rode out the negative equity and are now living in some very extensive houses with reasonable mortgage payments. Alas, I was a single parent studying at uni in those times. Now I can afford it, house prices are ridiculous.

Still struggling to have sympathy for people who own more than one property. Until those who want to (and can afford to) own their own homes, I don't see why others get to have multiple properties and get tax relief on them.

I can genuinely see my unreasonableness now although I do still feel those with ltd companies should get anymore relief than me!!
Hope we can all still be friends??
I still don't think I'm unreasonable to invest in property for my kids especially since I'm paying so much in bloody tax.
Ps don't mind paying capital gains tax either, just thought I'd annoy those being rude to me although I'm not going to volunteer it I do happen to move into my ground floor flat in old age!

For a couple HH the change only has an effect if both partners are higher rate tax payers. They are rare and not my definition of the squeezed middle.

Op if you are still in receipt of child benefit then you are already far more fortunate than many with similar family income split differently.

You are not even close to understanding the position of those eligible for tax credits.

Also I think becoming an accidental landlord due to relationship / job changes is one thing but I don't know many tenants who would prefer a hobby landlord over a properly funded and managed business.

I provide extremely good housing, think new carpets, new kitchen to two families that are in receipt of housing benefit. I am excellent private landlord. Both my tenants have said the properties I've let them compared to what they were in are like night and day. I've had a nightmare sorting benefit claims for tenants. Been without rent for 2 months until the council sort this. Again most private landlords wouldn't be so understanding telling their tenants not to worry. I do feel I am being community spirited in providing housing. One property I could get £300 more a month for but rented it at a lower price that was affordable to her. I bought both tenants champagne and flowers when they moved in for feck sake. Why am I being treated like a villain!!

Ps didn't even save receipts for flowers and champagne to claim back tax!

That rubbish. If you could get an extra £300 a month and don't you'd be a) a ridiculous business woman and b) able to pay your tax bill easily without all the poverty pleading in your original OP

I don't think tenants mind whether their landlord owns one property or twenty provided that they are honest and carry out their responsibilities. An organised landlord who carries out repairs promptly, does the gas safety check and uses a property deposit protection scheme is important.

An amateur landlord is not necessarily an incompetent landlord. There are landlords with multiple properties who are as crooked as they come.

You're being 'community spirited'?!?!

Fuck off

I will probably never be able to get on the housing ladder as the btl market and second home purchased have pushed house prices through the roof where I live. That said I get a housing benefit top up for my extortionate rent and yet if I had a mortgage my costs would half by the advisors calculations and I wouldn't need a top up- go figure??

I don't think tenants mind whether their landlord owns one property or twenty provided that they are honest and carry out their responsibilities. An organised landlord who carries out repairs promptly, does the gas safety check and uses a property deposit protection scheme is important.

An amateur landlord is not necessarily an incompetent landlord. There are landlords with multiple properties who are as crooked as they come

Soo true!

Believe me or don't if you don't want to Bronco. I have taken in to account my present tenant will look after the property, (save on repairs), be there for years (no void periods), I trust I get paid rent (no arrears), can manage the property myself easily as she's a good tenant (another £130 month saved). So not really that bad business sense. It's a win, win, win situation for everyone really!
I completely agree there are some horrendous landlords but I'm not one of them and always ensure I'm fair, compliant and moral.
My tenants would not have a better landlord or property if I wasn't on this industry.
Ps I also give tenants my daughters hand me downs. Bronco I know I could sell them on eBay and it's a bad business decision but have choose not to!

In fairness, although OP as wound me up royally with some of the antagonistic comments on this thread, as a landlady she sounds decent enough.

Thanks apricot. The antagonistic quotes were really aimed for the people that weren't being overly kind to me. I don't really have any horses!😆

'Stuff the kids'?
There are some of us who don't have assets, who can't afford to set our kids up and who won't ever get an inheritance.

We just have to support ourselves - ok that means using benefits because of our specific circumstances but is never have expected my parents to help me buy a house or put me through university I have to pay my own way.

So will my kids (if they ever manage independence).

Nothing wrong with that...

I moved out of a flat because I didn't want a BTL landlord. To be fair, our landlord was selling and hoped to sell to a BTL. I'm used to renting places where my LL used to live but for various reasons have had to move. So it's less of a business for them - or so it feels.

*People making a life essential (housing) profitable and an 'investment' is why the cost of living is so high and where it all went wrong.

If this means less BTL and in return lower house prices and lower rents then I welcome it.*

That's not what will happen. House prices might drop slightly yes, but rents will increase as there will be less rental properties available as the landlords will have sold them! So this will benefit some, those who are just slightly priced out but there is a significant proportion who will be worse off because of this. The really poor with no chance of ever affording to buy, students, people who move frequently with work etc.

there will be less rental properties available as the landlords will have sold them
thats not a problem, there will also be fewer people wanting to rent

The sector of people who would like to buy but previously couldn't because landlords were hoovering up all the available properties will now get a chance to invest in their own homes

Filthy I am not sure I agree with your analysis. If every btl driven out of the market is replaced by an owner occupier who was previously priced out then the impact on the rental market would surely be neutral?

You're not being treated like a villain. Tax isn't a punishment. It's not a fine. Regardless of what you use the proceeds of your investment for and how morally you undertake your business affairs, the fact is that the government aren't going to make an exception for your circumstances - it's universal, because that's how tax works.

Tax increases are also (thankfully) not retrospective. You don't get a backdated tax bill when things go up. Imagine if, when the VAT rate increased from 17.5% to 20%, everyone received a bill for 2.5% of the value of everything they had ever bought?! It doesn't work like that. The fact your friend has paid off her mortgages is irrelevant. Everyone gets taxed within the present tax rules, and with something like BTL you at least have the luxury of deciding to opt out of it and invest elsewhere.

You're being treated like a villain because you have come on here complaining about one of the few moves the current government have done to make things a bit more equal in this country.

You wouldn't have received tax relief on money borrowed to make investments and so you shouldn't on your BTL properties. Its been an anomaly in the system which has allowed far too many people to become landlords who shouldn't really have been so. The BOE has been calling for this sort of clamp down and it is about to get worse as you will be expected to have higher deposits in future. BTL landlords are often vulnerable to this sort of change.

Also, why should the state subsidise your wealth accumulation and to pass it on to your children? This is effectively what that tax break is. Your comment about "paying so much tax" has got to be rubbish because you also say that you "just" earn enough not to get tax credits seem rather at logger heads with each other. Oh and I doubt you will do enough to avoid CTG on your properties, quick moves in years close to each other are investigated.

You sound exactly like a lot of poster on here, don't want to pay any tax, but love the fact that society works well so you can make "70k in the last year".

Finally you're being treated like a villain because you have been rather stealth boasty and very smug about your "wealth".

To stop you arguing your jealousy bit, I'm a Landlord too, but I own, a 3 bed flat in a Maida Vale mansion block which I bought in the early 80s, as well as my lovely Q.P des res. I pay C.T tax on my earnings from the flat and have done for years ( despite the fact that we rent it below market rate), I probably won't pay CTG on the flat because once the last DC is done with uni (another 6 years) we are selling our house and moving into the flat, and spending our money. However it is likely that the DC will have to pay inheritance tax on that. I'm not jealous, I could buy you lock stock and barrel.

Poor BTL LL's... once a philanthropic fairy godmother, the govt favored you with tax breaks, the banks happily lent you whatever you wanted to fund your goodworks.

Now the tide has turned and you're being treated like an invasive species which must be culled before it destroys the whole ecosystem.
From golden child to cane toad, that's hard to bear isn't it

A bit cheeky of you to post this, especially as I note that you have several buy to let properties (you poor badly off people who get no benefits - shame).
If you don't like the buy to let tax regime, sell your properties and use the no doubt considerable profit you've made through increase in prices (having inherited the money in the first place, not worked to earn it) to invest elsewhere.
Something tells me that you won't be doing that.

On the other hand my friend who has several buy to let properties mortgage free is going to be unaffected by the new tax rules! How is that fair!!!
from the OP
not sure if anyone has replied to this astounding piece of illogic whinging BUT
if the BTL properties owned by friend are mortgage free there is no interest to pay so they are not gaining or losing anything . you OP have been benefitting from deducting the interest payments on your BTL from the income received in rent so you pay less or no tax. This change will marginally affect you possibly.

I am a bit confused. either this is a buy to let business where you make investments and decisions based on good business practice including the forward planning bit and what if scenarios.

or you are a fairy godmother who rents the properties out for less than they could (and that extra rent would easily pay the extra tax you are being asked for) who treats her tenants like family and doesn't care about the money side as much as the "community service" aspect.

which is it? you cant have it both ways. either this is a business and you are complaining about tax changes or it isn't.

and by the way, coming your way soon as a buy to let landlord will be business rates on your rental properties rather than council rates. that's the govt next step I bet.