To hate the word "pudding?"

[Misswrite89]

I hate it when people use the word pudding instead of dessert. AIBU?

"I'm dictating this post to my butler - he's a darling really."

He'll be handing in his notice later- not in his job description at all.........,

The points throughout the thread about class markers are purely that if you are at peace with yourself you use the words you want to use and are comfortable using.

Exactly! I prefer to use certain words, but I don't 'wince' when I hear others. And I certainly don't hate usages, as the OP does.

But as an academic with a passing interest in things sociological, I am fascinated by the way that class markers work. I'm also fascinated by the kind of reverse snobbery to be found in this thread. It's fine, isn't it, to be rude about those people one perceives as 'posh', but if someone like me started to talk about 'chavs' or 'oiks' - well, I'd expect to be deleted.

Surely as a hobby sociologist you understand the difference between 'reverse snobbery' and actually snobbery?

Reverse snobbery is just as bad as blatant snobbery I think.

All types of snobbery are born from a feeling of insecurity though.
If someone is comfortable of who they are, and within themselves then they won't be snobby in either direction.

I'm from Ireland and we don't have the same U/non-U distinctions about words like sofa/couch, loo/toilet/bathroom, sitting room/living room/lounge, but pudding makes me CRINGE. A step too far for me, I'm afraid.

There's a scene in The Pursuit of Love where Uncle Alconleigh has a rant at poor Fanny about middle class (as opposed to U) language - "Fanny talks about mirrors and mantelpieces, looking glass and perfume...". So I suppose English people have been stressing out about this for a quite.

Reverse snobbery is just as bad as blatant snobbery I think.

Members of a privileged group spitting on the disenfranchised is not really the same as the latter being defensive against what they perceive as symbols of the establishment, you know.

Of course it isn't RoboticSEalup - of course I understand that. I suppose that I'm thinking about the difference between making broad statements, and criticising individuals. The perennial sociologist's question about how we talk about individual experience vs collective trends.

Yes, the power difference makes Members of a privileged group spitting on the disenfranchised is not really the same as the latter being defensive against what they perceive as symbols of the establishment

However, in a person to person exchange, it can hurt just as much to be on either side. Being a member of a privileged group doesn't insulate one from being hurt, either mentally or physically.

I think reverse snobbery is very damaging.

It discourages social and economic mobility.

I am from a working class background, thankfully I had a family that wanted me to go as far as I could and achieve as much as I could.
I have friends who were held back by their families 'working class pride'.

It's actually easier to deal with proper snobs than it is to deal with reverse snobbery ime.

I have friends who were held back by their families 'working class pride'.

I've had problems with that too. My parents are from equally working-class, large, poor families but my dad's attitude is like your family's whereas my mums', while I was at school and wanting to do A levels and go to uni, was 'education's not for the likes of us' and 'you've got ideas above your station.' It's very damaging.

Non Brit here- which is "posh" - napkin or serviette? Couch, sofa, lounge or settee? Seen one references to these on the thread but I can't figure it out.

And does "posh" language usually = southern?

Astrophe - as a general rule of thumb, the version that sounds vaguely French is the no -posh.

Napkin, sofa, sitting room - posh
Serviette, sofa, lounge - non posh.

'Couch' I would describe as predominantly American and not really in either category.

These specific examples are laid out by a linguist named Alan C Ross, and picked up on by Nancy Mitford. There are more, but some are very dated.

Interesting! I would have assumed French= posh. But is French not posh because it's 'aspirational', and only the non posh need to aspire to be posh?

icanteven in fact, in that scene Uncle Matthew is giving those linguistic reasons to justify his argument that Linda may not go to school, because that is where Fanny has picked up the vocabulary. Nancy M expands on the theme in her essay Noblesse Oblige, from 1955.

Precisely, astrophe.

Ironically, many of the French influences on English do come from the aristocracy. In the Middle Ages, French was spoken by the nobility and English was a rough peasants' language. Hence the distinction between beef and cow, pork and pig - the name of the meat comes from the French, as spoken by those who ate it, and of the animal from the Germanic Middle English spoken by the farmers.

Puddng and dessert mean different things though, so people often mix them up.

On the subject of using pardon, I once read a piece from jilly cooper -her son being remonstrated with at school for saying " what?" Instead of pardon, he announced " mummy says pardon is a much worse word than fuck"

And does that apply to all/many French words?
What about cafeterier ( I think this is what you call a device I would call a coffee plunger)? And mange tout (snow peas!). Are these non posh and are there posh alternatives? I find this so interesting.

That's very interesting indeed, miss turnstiles.

Apostrophe That's it, basically, yes!

Cafetière non-U. Coffee pot would be U. Again, Americans avoid this altogether with 'French press'...!

Clever yanks (and Aussies, and kiwis...) ;-)

ar-16 10:56:42
*All of you who insist on saying 'pudding' instead of 'dessert',

For those who have always said pudding, it's the other way round: to them it seems some people are insisting on saying 'dessert' rather than 'pudding'.

In America they say dessert for the course though.
I think in the UK dessert is almost always written on restaurant menus.

I am southern and middle class. I go out for dinner and have dessert (from the desert menu). At home we eat supper (has to be after 6 or it's tea) and have pudding or more usually not. Dinner is never taken at lunch time, it is always lunch including Sunday Lunch and Christmas Lunch. If I invite you for tea I expect around 4pm and will offer cake, not a main meal.

That last one causes the most problems "come for tea" to some people means 5:30 for hot food .

The word "loo" comes from when people who had big houses with many rooms, and the called the toilet "room 100". 100 looks like the word loo and apparently this is where it came from.

Really?

I thought it came from 'gardez l'eau' when you emptied a chamber pot out of an upstairs window. So, l'eau/loo is piss.