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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Nursery not letting children in

71 replies

Albaba · 19/03/2016 12:20

Ok I am just looking others perspectives on this as to whether it was me or the nursery being unreasonable.

The back story is my dd's attend a nursery to which a pre school is attached. They attend the pre school for a morning session 5 days a week but in addition to this they have also been attending two days a week in the nursery for the last 3 years as we both work. We pay a small fortune for this every month and in addition to this all holidays, sick days etc are paid for by us too which we have just accepted.

This week however there was a bit of a misunderstanding. The girls were in preschool up until Wednesday and the nursery was closed on Thursday for St Patricks Day. This was one of our nursery days and a day that we lost due to them being closed but still pay for. However on Friday the nursery was having a party. Posters all over the nursery asking children to dress up and donate money to Sports relief. I ordered the girls two outfits at a cost to myself. We took the girls to the nursery on Friday all dressed up only to met at the door by one of the girls who said "Sorry preschool is closed today" So I had two children in the car all dressed up and looking forward to a party only to be turned away at the door because it wasn't their day. Do you think it was my fault for getting the day wrong or do you think the nursery could have shown a bit of leniency and let them in to a party for a couple of hours considering I had gone to the trouble of buying them outfits and left two small children all dressed up, disapointed and nowhere to go?

OP posts:

lunar1 · 19/03/2016 13:43

Are your children normally in Friday because i read it as if they are and you are therefor subsidising a party for a different group of children who were in that day.

Gileswithachainsaw · 19/03/2016 13:44

they didn't break the law

they just had all the staff rota'd on

curren · 19/03/2016 13:44

Presumably the other kids who normally attend preschool on Fridays weren't sitting outside in their party clothes as they knew preschool was closed?

^^this

Gileswithachainsaw · 19/03/2016 13:45

It was the same fir sports day. they could attend even if it wasn't their day

Mawsymoo · 19/03/2016 13:47

The crèche my DS attends (which also has a sessional montessori) had dress-up in green day on Wednesday before the schools broke-up. There would be no question of additional children attending any event on Friday as the sessional staff are off until after Easter so there wouldn't be appropriate ratios.

Mawsymoo · 19/03/2016 13:51

@lunar no she's not subsidising other children as sessional preschool is only during term time and the OP (or the State if her children are of the appropriate age) will only pay for those days.

minipie · 19/03/2016 13:56

OP it all depends on whether you realised the pre school was shut on Friday and the party was just for nursery children.

If you did realise then YWBVU to turn up and expect to be let in.

If you didn't realise and thought the party was for preschool kids too then YWNBU and sounds like some bad communication by the nursery and in that case I think they should have let them in if at all possible - though if staff ratios were an issue it may not have been possible.

unlucky83 · 19/03/2016 14:45

So the preschool is closed for the holidays ...and the nursery was closed yesterday for St Patricks when it is usually one of your DCs days so you assumed you could just turn up on another day? Especially cos the party had been widely advertised?
And when you realised your misunderstanding you thought they should just let your DCs in anyway?
As well as staff ratios they will have a max no of children they can have on the premises (decided by their regulatory body and the buildings insurance), if they had different children in every day they could potentially have 5x the amount of children they allowed on a party day!
In my DCs preschool children the building was insured for private parties for more children than the preschool were allowed by the regulatory body.
So if DCs didn't normally attended on a 'special' day they worked the max number of children who could possibly want to attend. If that was lower than the regulatory body limit all the children were invited.
If it was more than that but less than the building limit and the regulatory body agreed (they had to be informed and it was on an event by event basis) the parents of the 'extra' children had to stay and be responsible for their child.
With working parents not wanting to take time off etc, this in practice meant that they usually went below the regulatory limit, so children could have stayed without a parent, but the extra parents still had to stay or it wouldn't be fair on the ones who had pulled out because they couldn't...
If it had gone over the building limit, none of the extra children would have been invited and if someone had just turned up they would have been turned away, because it isn't fair to do otherwise. (Afaik that has never happened cos the building limit is 4 times that of the reg body limit although accompanying parents then obviously add to the numbers allowed )
The group anyway tried to make sure they didn't always have events/parties/visitors on the same day of the week - so it was fair over the year.

Elle80 · 19/03/2016 16:06

YABU. My DDs also attend nursery 3 days a week and if there is a party on a Friday, for example (not their day to go in) then they can't go. Simple as that. They have a maximum number of kids at any one time, and would be in breach of H&S and OFSTED regs.

squiggleirl · 19/03/2016 16:15

We pay a small fortune for this every month and in addition to this all holidays, sick days etc are paid for by us too which we have just accepted.

But this is standard for any creche / most childminders. It would be unreasonable to expect to not pay if you take your child on holidays, or because they were sick. Creches still have bills and wages to pay irrespective of your child showing up on a particular day.

TooGood2BeFalse · 19/03/2016 16:16

My DS goes to nursery from Mon-Thurs inclusive. If there is a party or some other event on a Friday, they will ask me if I'd like to change a day or swap one of next week's so that he can attend on a Friday.

I think it's a bit mean of yours to advertise a party but not make it available for other kids from differvent days. However, if it's a ratio thing then they have no choice.

Are you new to the nursery?You should have checked really, wasn't it ever mentioned at pick up? "See you on Friday for the party! , insert name " kind of thing, didn't you notice they didn't mention it?

Sorry for your DC though, sounds upsetting

curren · 19/03/2016 16:41

I don't believe the OP didn't know the preschool had closed for Easter.

I think as she lost a nursery day on Thursday they should let her use the nursery on Friday.

That's not how it works unfortunately

Original poster

Albaba · 19/03/2016 20:11

It's me the original poster. This genuinely happened and I am not a chancer and just wanted to see other peoples opinions. So general consensus is that I was being unreasonable then.

It was a 100% genuine error on my part. I thought the pre school finished on the Friday but apparently I was wrong. The pre school had closed on the Wednesday and just the nursery was open. Friday was not their day to be at nursery and they were not entitled to be at the party. I was just a bit miffed but didn't complain and just accepted it. Just wanted to canvas others opinions thanks.

OP posts:

NoMoreParades · 19/03/2016 20:18

I don't think you're being unreasonable, the nursery should have been more clear. When my son's preschool have a party they always allow the children who aren't there on that day the option to attend, by paying the session fee, thus allowing them to rota in more staff. All the children are able to be included, really doesn't seem fair to leave some out.
Also I'm shocked you still had to pay for a day when the nursery was actually closed, wtf?!

Original poster

Albaba · 19/03/2016 20:32

Nomoreparades. Unfortunately that is the norm. We pay a set rate every month so if there are bank holidays, staff training, Easter holidays, Christmas holidays etc you still pay for them even though your child is not there. It is a complete con I know but the nursery has the whole area wrapped up and eating out of their hands and they know it.

OP posts:

NoMoreParades · 19/03/2016 20:47

Oh :(

squiggleirl · 20/03/2016 00:39

But it's not a con Albaba. The monthly rate is based on there being a set number of bank holidays in the year, and what you pay is an averaged monthly rate that takes allowance of all required closures. By the same token, you don't pay any more for the months where there are no bank holidays, and your children are minded for more days than in other months. Do you think you should pay less in February as it is the shortest month, or should you pay more every other month of the year because your children may be minded more days in those months? It's all averaged and bank holidays are accounted for within that averaging.

The ECCE free pre-school year is for 3 hours per day, 5 days per week, 38 weeks of the year. It is not a year-long provision. Bank holidays are not covered within the scheme, as they are not days primary schools are open. In a previous post I explained the idea of your weekly cost being based on their being 50 weeks in the year which allows for the 10 Irish bank holidays, and means that your monthly cost allows for any bank holidays that may fall on the days your child is supposed to attend.

When my son's preschool have a party they always allow the children who aren't there on that day the option to attend, by paying the session fee, thus allowing them to rota in more staff.
In Ireland, there are not only staff to child ratios that have to be adhered to, but each room within the facility must have a certain floor area per child. This floor area requirement varies with the age of the child, and the type of care being provided. The floor area per child is greater for part/time care (which the Friday of the party would have been classed as) than for sessional care (which the pre-school hours would be classed as). Whilst it's possible to increase staffing levels to meet demand, it is not possible to increase building capacity to accommodate the extra numbers. It may simply just not be possible to have all children there.

All the children are able to be included, really doesn't seem fair to leave some out.
But children aren't being left out. This seems to have been a party for the kids who were in the creche over the Easter holidays. This could have been any mix of children, and may have been a way to get them all to bond a little at the start of the holidays. The OPs children were not supposed to be there over the Easter holidays, so it wasn't leaving them out, they just weren't going to be there for a particular activity, the same as if there were an activity on a Monday, Wednesday or Friday during the school year.

AndNowItsSeven · 20/03/2016 00:49

We are lucky in dc nursery all children attend for two hours whether it's their day or not. They only have parties for Christmas and Halloween though usually.

BillSykesDog · 20/03/2016 01:40

It's only a con if you tend not to believe in people having things like paid holidays. In which case I suggest you forgo all your own holiday pay and time off in order to set a good example. Perhaps take up a job in a Bangladesh sweatshop? I hear that sort of system is very popular there.

unlucky83 · 20/03/2016 01:57

I said similar to Squiggle but it is not in Ireland - our preschool is in big hall which is used by different groups and therefore the play equipment can all be stored completely away.

The reg body look at the space when all the equipment is set up - and say that part of the area can't be used -and use that to set the max no of children. But when the hall is in use for different things, without the equipment up, the numbers can be much higher. Eg If you hired it for a private birthday party for a preschooler, from the building insurance and fire regulations etc - you could have many more children.
For the preschool arranged parties the equipment isn't up so they are fine for space but the reg body max number doesn't change. But, as I said, the reg body will on an event by event basis give permission if the extra children are the responsibility of their parent and they don't charge fees for those children. (Which I guess is the reg bodies way of making sure that the setting doesn't start taking the piss having a party twice a week so they can take on more children...)

Jenijena · 20/03/2016 02:29

My son's nursery sends invited to children if certain parties fall on their 'off' day but children have to be accompanied by an adult and it's made clear they're there just for the party, and must leave straight afterwards.

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