to think home education is looking more appealing

[Gisla]

I wish I was brave enough to take my children out of formal education. I feel I'm working my way towards it.

The system appears to be in a mess; teachers are unhappy, ridiculous confusing tests for 6 year olds and now forcing academy status on schools, talk of extending the school day and abolishing QTS.

Aibu to want to shout "will nobody think of the children?"

The cost would worry me too Fratelli. We survive on one wage as I am a SAHM but I don't know how we would afford to do anything with the dcs at home.

However at the moment our dcs attend great schools and seem to be thriving but there has been moments in the past where I have been worried and considered HE.

HE groups here are far cheaper, outside the usual hours coaches etc want so you can shop around for a good deal if it's 1:30 on a Monday for a kids group. The same drama class is one third of the cost as runs at 4pm, with only half the numbers.

We don't have much spare income and certainly couldn't match what the school buy in. I do see they would benefit in other ways and experiences though. I think it's a great choice for those not thriving at school but my daughter is and loves it! If my second daughter had been first we'd have HE I think!

I know it doesn't worry everyone but I do worry about reintegration to secondary. (I know some home schoolers just do an access course etc etc but I really did love being taught and we do have a good grammar school.)

I may go part way and homeschool for year 6.

I'd certainly lean the other way if mine had additional needs not being met or couldn't cope with the pace or didn't engage/like school for some reason though.

I am a teacher and whilst I think media perception of teachers is vastly out of sync with reality I feel that the governments interference is shocking.

My advice? If I could I would! Quit and HE DS. And I love teaching!

My children were educated in primary school in the 1980's and had the most wonderful, well rounded education. I know that because I was there part of the time teaching during the 1970''s 1980's 1990's and in the 2000's.
I am now a supply teacher and in despair of the narrow curriculum (I work in early years and Key Stage 1) I could weep for little ones when I arrive at a school and look at the daily plan left for me to deliver. If I had a young child at school today I would be very disappointed with their experiences.
When I meet children ( who are now adults, parents even some are grandparents) they talk to me about the fun times we had , singing, dancing, reading stories, listening to stories, PE, outside science activities etc.
Fun is not a word I would use in connection with children's learning experiences today.
Very very sad in my opinion and not actually increasing numeracy and literacy skills in any great measures.

Nc'ed.

I honestly don't know a single family who has taken their children out of school to HE and regretted it. Yes some found it tough, mentally and financially. But there are ways through that. I HE in the day and work at night. Many HE families run businesses from home. There are curriculums you can but out of the box, massive free online resources. Our entire curriculum for the first year cost under ten pounds as we were skint. Yes to activities being cheaper in school hours. There is so much going on in the home ed community you could be out every single day if you wanted. Tutors at reduced rates too. Co-ops are set up so the mum with English knowledge teaches the English curriculum, this is 'paid for' by you teaching your speciality for example. You don't need to know everything or be a teacher. Empower you child with the motivation to learn and find information and they will fly, all you have to do is guide and steer. Research has proven the whilst the biggest indicator of success for schooled children is their parents level of education, this is not true of homeschooled children. And homeschooled children continually trump the state schooled children in terms of achievement levels. My question would be one that is often quoted...if you went to school yet don't feel confident enough to teach your child, why would you send your child through the same system? Especially a system that piles on the pressure more and more each year, narrows the curriculum each year and is being sold of to corporate entities!

I wish it was an option for us. I have family members who HE their children and all are immensely happy with their decision. The children are happy, excited about learning again and enjoy a hugely varied and interesting timetable. They have a great social life -better than when they were at school actually. Unfortunately, I have to work. It's not an option to downsize or quit and DH works at least 60 hours a week most weeks. DD adores school (me, not so much!) and would really upset if I took her out because of her friends . DS I could see would really thrive being HE and would love it (aspergers). Wish I had done it from day dot with the kids and never started school.

I suspect HSing would be a LOT commoner if it were not for the whole "lost income/resume gap" problem. An unspoken role of schools is that of a daycare for older children.

My experience of HSers is that some of them do not know what the hell they are doing. However, well educated people who are committed, do their research properly, actually TEACH their kids (as opposed to wafting about pretending they will teach themselves through baking and Minecraft) and make use of a wide range of resources (tutoring, camps, extra curriculas, HSing groups, online schooling, sometimes flexischooling) generally educate their kids very well indeed--certainly at primary level, at any event. Most HSers I know shift their kids into the school system at some point in their teens.

Unfortunately the type of people who tend to make good HSers are the same people who have good career prospects are potentially sacrificing a lot of income to HS.

Financially it depends what you want. Many home educators claim that they spend less as they don't have uniform and constant requests for money for trips/dressing up days/sponsorship. Plus term time holidays. I am not sure I agree with that but the advantage of home education is you have more control over what and when you spend money. Plus negotiating educational rates, either for a group or family, has given us opportunities to do things that we couldn't justify paying anywhere near full price for.

Reduction in income is the big one as two parents working full time is not really doable. Many do manage to both work though, balancing hours, support of grandparents, child care (often other he ers). For us we bought our house while I was pregnant and therefore we bought as cheap a thing that we could find in a ok area (might be made of cardboard), but in a good location for walking places so no car needed. In other words started out with bills as low as possible. Which made it possible for me to continue not to work. As it happens I was lucky to find work from home that I try to fit in to weekends/evenings which has helped.

There is definitely a spirit of make do and mend in home ed community and less is more.

QTS isn't being abolished. It's being adjusted so now a headmaster will sign it off when the NQT is ready - maybe

I took dd out in year 4 after she was dragged to the floor by her hair, again and the school still wouldn't acknowledge it was bullying.

It was great. But in year 6 she wanted to go back, she did love school. So we found her a place. That year or so at home, was the best thing we ever did for her. Going into the new school she was a completely different child. I wouldn't do it now as she really does love her secondary school (an academy) and she feels fully supported.

I wouldn't hesitate to do it for ds if the same happened to him.

I would do it for dd again if she faced problems again.

We loved it. Wasn't easy, but the freedom was incredible.

Despite 30+ years between us working in education, DH and I have never met a home schooled child who wasn't a weirdo lacked the social skills of their peers.

I have never met a home schooled child who lacked social skills. Most people who HE ensure their children have lots of interaction with other children. We had a local group who we met up with for social things at least 3 times a week. We even got tutors for things we felt we needed help with and they were taught together sometimes.

Shit like the above I quoted is usually spouted by education 'professionals' that are scared that they don't hold all the power and that parents can do and equally good job.

When dd was attacked at school and I refused to send her in, in the morning until they met with me. They threatened me with court action for keeping her off.

When I told them she wouldn't be coming back if they didn't resolve this, they again threatened me with court action. They were nearly sick when I produced the de registration letter and they realised I actually knew mine and my daughters rights.

They couldn't handle not having the power of 'absence fines' to use against us. So odd that the head teacher was got rid of after our complaint.

Jlivingstone, of course educating your children at home isn't the same job as being a teacher in a school! Chatting one to one (or one to two) across the kitchen table is massively different to standing in front of a class of 30 children.

Not getting into your nasty 'weirdo' remarks, other than to say that round here HE is fairly mainstream and new people are leaving the school system in ever accelerating rates. I just don't see all these kids lacking social skills when we're out and about at HE groups and clubs.

Jiving stone your training was to enable you to teach a classroom of children all at different standards. Also to manage behaviour and work within a specific framework. Teaching your own one, two , three or four dc is very different.
The homeschooled dc I know are not weirdos. How rude.

fishlegs - it's true that it's different teaching small groups compared to a class, but if I spent that much time on behaviour management (I assume that's what you're getting at) then I wouldn't be a good teacher.

Maybe weirdo wasn't the right word but I absolutely stand by it. Unusual. Strange. Different. Awkward. That is absolutely my personal and professional opinion borne from experience. I'm sure your children are different.

curren - "Shit like the above I quoted is usually spouted by education 'professionals' that are scared that they don't hold all the power"

Why the inverted commas around "professionals"?
Why should they be scared?
What power do you think they hold?
What power do you think they want to hold?

"parents can do and [sic] equally good job."

Indeed, teachers can be parents. Not sure parents are teachers though (in the qualified and trained sense of the word). If you're as good without training as a qualified teacher then it's a real shame you didn't become a teacher. Think how many pupils have missed out on your wonderful skills. Are you one of those people who will go to see a Dr armed with a list of homoeopathic remedies?

"They were nearly sick when I produced the de registration letter and they realised I actually knew mine and my daughters rights"

Nearly sick? Really? I 'lost' a pupil to home schooling once. Felt a little pity for the child for a morning. Never crossed my mind again. Why would they care if you know your rights*?

*it seems like everyone nowadays is well aware of their rights but sadly, it's a minority who are aware of their responsibilities.

Because my child was asaulted and they didn't want to acknowledge it. They felt there wasn't much I could do, so they could do what they want.

They loved reminding me I had a responsibility to ensure my dd was regularly in school. They didn't realise I knew they were wrong. A lot of schools out there coast along presuming parents don't know the full extent of their rights.

Professionals is in inverted commas because spouting things like 'they are weirdos' and threatening court action unless you continue to send your child to school while they don't do anything about her being assaulted is not professional.

It wasn't pity. It's was feeling sick because they knew when my complaint went to the LA they were in the shit. As I said as a result the head was let go. Why? Because they uncovered a school that his bullying and any problems to maintain an outstanding status.

They knew they were in the wrong and were not doing their part of their job. Which is ensuring kids are emotionally happy and feel safe.

I feel quite disturbed that teachers out there feel pity and have such a view of HE children.

Does it hurt your ego?

"Jiving stone your training was to enable you to teach a classroom of children all at different standards. Also to manage behaviour and work within a specific framework. Teaching your own one, two , three or four dc is very different."

Differentiation was a small part of the post grad. Behaviour management is also a small part and honestly, something you learn through experience.
Teaching strategies makes up the majority of the time as well of course, as the practical experience and advice and experience shared during placements by people with a wealth of experience.

Between my MSc and PGCE I worked for a couple of years doing small group (3-5) work (G&T mathmatics) for several LEAs in the county. I loved it and can obviously see the differences in small group vs full-class teaching. Before anyone suggests that G&T meant that the children were easy, that is far from the truth. Many of the children were complete pains in the arse as they weren't used to being challenged.

"The homeschooled dc I know are not weirdos. How rude."

synonyms: bizarre, quirky, outlandish, eccentric, unconventional, unorthodox, idiosyncratic, surreal, crazy, peculiar, odd, strange, queer, freakish, zany, madcap, outré; informalbizarro, wacky, freaky, way-out, offbeat, off the wall, wacko

I stand by it. We can agree to differ, but examples of children I've known are;

• too mature for their age
• bet we read about her in the news in a few years
• "'football is a waste of time" (I'll never forget hearing the child say that)
• "I don't understand the rules and I'm not sure how people can win at it". That was from an 8 year old... the game was 'it'

I haven't met a child who was home schooled who I wouldn't have been able to guess so within a minute of talking to them or even simply watching them play (or not) with others.

Ohhh, so you don't really mean 'lacking social skills' so much as 'unafraid to not conform with societal norms'. Yes I'll buy that. The thing is, I definitely see that as a positive trait, you clearly don't! Much harder to teach 30 individuals, I accept that.

"I feel quite disturbed that teachers out there feel pity and have such a view of HE children."

In my experience, it's a common feeling amongst teachers.

"Does it hurt your ego?"

Not even slightly. I know I'm excellent at my job. Might sound arrogant, but it's confidence slowly acquired after years of practice (and many, many mistakes along the way) and many more to come.

The question is a little like a conversation I had with an old school friend a few months ago. She said something like "Mr X., (geog. teacher) really hated me". I pointed out that it was incredibly unlikely that he gave her a second thought once she'd left his classroom. At worst he was personally ambivalent. As she got an A and it wasn't through out-and-out intellect, he obviously educated her well.

Like I said, I genuinely feel sorry for home schooled children. That is a professional opinion.

too mature for their age

Really? You have never come across children in main stream eduction that aren't far more mature than others. Not entirely sure why this would be always a bad thing. Lots of dds (12) and ds (5) friends are far more mature and some less so. All always been in mainstream education.

-bet we read about her in the news in a few years

What? Who will you see in the news? For what? Are children that go to school, never in the news?

-"football is a waste of time" (I'll never forget hearing the child say that)

My dh has always thought this. My ds doesn't like football either. Some of his friends love football, some don't. Why is that an issue? His sports are track and field and kickboxing. Why is that wrong? He has always been school educated.

- "I don't understand the rules and I'm not sure how people can win at it". That was from an 8 year old... the game was 'it'

And what? How can you prove that is because you home educate. He does get 'it', feels it's a pointless game. Lots of kids think things are pointless if there is no 'win'. Have you ever been to a sports day?

A year 8 child had a strop at dds school yesterday because he came third out of 200 in the sorts relief fun run. She was quite bemused by it.

Nothing on to a list is exclusive or the more common in any HE children than in school educated children.

Sorry for the typos. I am dyslexic and don't manage to pick them all out.

Like I said, I genuinely feel sorry for home schooled children. That is a professional opinion.

No it's a personal opinion. Based on the lack of facts and the use of words like weirdo. Do you use that language at school?

"Ohhh, so you don't really mean 'lacking social skills' so much as 'unafraid to not conform with societal norms'. Yes I'll buy that. The thing is, I definitely see that as a positive trait, you clearly don't! Much harder to teach 30 individuals, I accept that."

No. I mean lacking social skills.

I love the range of personalities of children I teach. Of course teaching a class of drones would be easier but incredibly boring.One of my favourite ever pupils was hilarious, both intentionally and without meaning to be. He made every single day more difficult but more rewarding.

No it's a personal opinion. Based on the lack of facts and the use of words like weirdo. Do you use that language at school?"

It's an opinion of a trained professional.

"Nothing on to a list is exclusive or the more common in any HE children than in school educated children."

I'd day it's much more common. I think that's been the main gist of all my posts.It's impossible, I'd imagine, to produce facts which show how home schooling produces socially abnormal/inept* people. You cannot give concrete figures. You can however base it on years of observation and experience.

Whilst I was quoting the football comment, it acted a little like a (perhaps poor) metaphor). The boy simply thought games were a waste of time. Very sad.
Not knowing the rules of it? That to me means a childhood sadly lacking in fun and games and interaction with 'regualar' children.

*better than 'weirdo'? That's probably the phrase I'd use at school. Of course I use different language here than at school. It's to do with learning behaviour and what is socially acceptable in different situtaions. I learnt it at school.

It's an opinion of a trained professional.

So all your opinions are professional? You don't have personal opinions, ever? All your opinions are professional.

Since I have had a child that's been HE and schooled educated and one that has been completely school educated. I can tell you having met loads of both, my experience is that it's not more common amongst HE.

Some kids like some games, not others. Some kids aren't interested in playing games like 'it' or football even when they go to school.

Many kids don't know rules to games they don't play. Dd (very sporty now) doesn't know the rules to badminton.

I don't know the rules to football. It doesn't interest me. I kind of know the rules to rugby league, I have a passing interest. I know the rules for each association of kick boxing, inside out. As I and my kids do it. The dojo overwhelmingly attended by children. A couple HE and you couldn't pick them outZ

There are kids that don't like to do it unless they know they will win, don't see the point in sparring without a 'winner', prefer to compete but don't like the non competitive classes. Most are school educated. Some aren't as social as others.

Because a kid has never played 'it' or doesn't like football, does not mean they don't have interaction.

I don't recall ever playing 'it' with my kids. Hide and seek, rolling about in the garden etc yes.

You are linking to pieces of information that are not connected and saying one causes the other.