To think it's about time Joan Bakewell retires from public life if she is going to make such stupid comments

[ReallyTired]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35797158

The idea that anorexia is a sign of narcissism is ridiculous and damaging to anorexia victims. It's like saying that cancer patients deserve to die because they sun bathed or ate too many bacon sardies. No one chooses to be anorexic any more than they choose to have lung cancer.

The reason that anorexia is less common in places where there is less food is that there no social pressure to be thin or to diet. There are different pressures.

I know very little about anorexia. Anorexia suffers I have met are no more narisstic than anyone else. The few anorexia victims I have met have had OCD traits and are ultra perfectionists. However a sample of two is not enough to draw any conclusions especially as I am not a pychiaratist.

Anorexia is a desperate condition and one of the victims I knew died at 25 years old. The victim had everything to live for and her death was a terrible tradgy.

Maybe Joan Bakewell should stick to assessing hot housed kids and leave anorexia to the doctors.

The Countess

I also found the OP ageist

Her point was exactly the same as yours OP. Societies expectations are the cause of anorexia and societies expectations are narcissistic. Of course she should have just kept her mouth shut as she clearly has no basis in speculative diagnosis of societal ills.

Or a bunch of middle aged and old white men what a nasty, prejudiced remark!

I think, if anything we are more a overly self-critical society than a narcissistic one.

It was an ignorant and trite thing to write, and typical of (ironically, rather narcissistic) people who are allowed to write comment pieces for newspapers. I have been really disappointed with Bakewell recently, it isn't the first time she has come out with something ill-judged and just plain incorrect.

I thought she wrote a piece about it in The Sunday Times rather than being quoted in interview. That's how it was reported on the radio yesterday morning, so sorry if that is incorrect.

I do think there is at least a grain of truth in what she said.

Hmm, think she was quoted out of context, for sure, but still well out of order. I used to be a fan until I got talking to her at a book festival, found her rather patronising, arrogant and blinkered in her thinking, not what I'd expected at all.

I have lost respect for Joan Bakewell over this. The use of the word "narcissistic" IMO was ill-advised.
My understanding of anorexia is it is a lot about trying to keep some control of one' s life & food is something that can be controlled.
Yes introspective would have perhaps been a better word to use.
Barbarian I agree she has made a very sweeping, ill-informed statement.

What else did she say - it might have been profoundly insightful but - we'll never know, too busy slagging her off.

She's 82 - just putting that so everyone can come back and say age is no excuse blah blah blah.

Banksy on advertising

We allow our children to be battered by airbrushed images of impossible bodies and wonder why they end up trying to conform to unrealistic unhealthy body types.

Olivia
Is it? The media is overwhelmingly controlled by old white men. So is politics. And business. That's not prejudice is the truth!

There are more CEOs named John than women.

I was anorexic in my early 20's. It was nothing to do with how I looked really. I was having a horrendous time of it with various family issues, relationships and it was a truly painful blanked-most-of-it-out time.

Starving myself was all about controlling something, as everything else was out of my control. It wasn't narcissistic. Anorexia is a sad, complex thing. I loathe the fact that I don't think I'll ever be free of it. It's always lurking there. Even writing this post, I find myself wanting to trigger myself and get 'back there.' Awful.

IN fact, I hate to mention it, but this thread could be triggering. Perhaps add it to the title? Or maybe I'm being a bit sensitive.

It is nothing to do with being thin or beautiful; like many people she is confusing anorexia with dieting.
Most anorexics have never been overweight so have had no cause to restrict their food intake as someone overweight might do. And if it was to do with being attractive anorexics would start eating normally once they reached the highly unattractive stage of being skin and bone, hair falling out etc.

She was very wrong to use that word and I wonder if she would apply the same judgement to someone who was morbidly obese or self harming?

Often people mistakingly think anorexia begins because the person is vain, or shallow, which is such an incorrect misconception, and it's actually a very damaging view.

I wish broadcasters, but people in general, would think twice before commenting on something that they know nothing of.

I adore Joan Bakewell and fervently hope she does NOT retire from public life.

I don't think it is accurate to say that anorexia has nothing to do with dieting or a desire to conform to societal "norms" either. Obviously not for all sufferers, but of course trying to lose a few pounds is the trigger in thousands of cases.

Why is it on the increase? Why is self harm on the increase? Why is depression on the increase?

first- Please don't go back there. 💐
Penny She looks good for her age! However she has pronounced on something she is not educated on using unhelpful language which unfortunately will be accepted by some people since the lady is a public figure respected for her intellect. I think her brain was not fully engaged with this one. Some 80 year olds remain very sharp. Anorexia involves disordered thinking & is an illness. More research is needed on it & I think the OP's point is - should the lady retire from voicing her opinion publicly now ? Based on this I am inclined to say yes. If you are a public position I think that responsibility needs to be used with care.
liinyo I agree with you. Years ago it was called the "slimmers' disease" - faulty understanding there as to the cause. Sometimes the images we are bombarded with can be triggers but they are not the cause. Thank you to first for explaining so well.

Bibbity- maybe it isn't on the increase, maybe we are just getting better at talking about mental health, so figures are more accurate?

I wonder, are all white men guilty of the crime of being white men? I'm assuming by that you mean prejudiced, uncaring and greedy?

You'd be happy if that was said of women powerful, or otherwise, whatever colour they were?

Do young people have to retire after saying one silly thing too, Scarlett, or only older people? What's the cut-off age?

People make less than thoughtful kinds of comments about all kinds of subjects at all ages. At what age should it be decided they should retire from public life 55 ,60 ? Up to what age is it ok to make a comment others disagree with and still remain in your job? Leave age out of it.

Yes, there are far too many women over the age of 50 influencing the media and public life. Cart the silly old bag off I say.

What are the men up to these days? Any cool new wars?

Hmm. I think what she said was ill-informed and badly judged and could easily be misinterpreted. But I think that she was clearly talking about society - not individuals - and she didn't make it news. The broadcasters made it news and a minority of people would have seen it without it being circulated in this way.

Agree with everyone who said a stupid comment in an interview is no cause for retirement and we shouldn't treat older women this way.

On her actual comments - I had a period in my early twenties where I had issues with food. Underweight, periods stopped, hair fell out etc. Was eating an apple a day and exercising at crazy levels. But it wasn't to do with image or narcissism. I was dealing with an awful break up, a move to a new country, loneliness, low self-esteem and - most of all - a need to be in control and feel like I was succeeding at something (ridiculous in hindsight because I wasn't failing in anything worth succeeding in really).

That said, I think that thinness is associated with virtue in our society. It's not particularly about looks, Facebook, beauty etc. But that if you control your food intake and stay slim you have more self-control, more discipline, you're more professional... Image plays a part in this disease but it's not "models are thin I want to be thin", it's more ephemeral, it's deeper.

In summary I think she should have said less on things she doesn't understand; her views shouldn't have been so widely circulated either.

I have anorexia.

To be honest, I don't think she's that far off the mark in many cases.

As a society, we are quite turned in towards ourselves and there is a constant desire within many people for a) more acceptance and b) more attention. Whether it's just perception or not, anorexia can appear to provide both these things.

At 15, I didn't think I was fat. But I was very unhappy with my appearance and I was quite isolated socially. I wasn't in the 'cool' group and I felt that my friends were just putting up with me. I was overly dramatic and artsy and thought that expressing internal unhappiness was sophisticated and interesting or some such bullshit.

When I stopped eating I became 'popular' (meaning people were interested in me and wanted to talk to me) I saw myself as exotic and fragile and certainly built my personality around being the 'sick one'. Certainly, I had a mental illness but to say that there was no element of attention seeking and narcissism in would be disingenuous. And although I didn't 'choose' to have anorexia, I also didn't choose to help myself and fix anything either. I think that might be a relatively common teenage experience.

Now that I have been anorexic for more than half my life, it's a bit different. In my professional life I obviously go out of my way to hide it and appear normal. I certainly don't want it to be my identity and don't draw attention to myself in that way. But I still have the tendency to regress that way among long standing friends and family. Sometimes it's like I don't know who I am if I'm not anorexic.

Anorexia is not a romantic, 'pretty' illness. Sufferers are certainly not always sweet, unassuming, perfectionistic teenage girls who want control in their lives or want to fade away and not be noticed. Many sufferers are cross addicted, suffering from other mental illnesses and extremely selfish, irrational and hysterical. They aren't selfish, irrational and hysterical people but the mental effects of starvation produce these behaviours.

Obviously, that's only my experience but I don't think it's that unusual. Anorexia, particularly chronic anorexia, can be very narcissistic indeed.

Well fair point Countess Fitz we do all make mistakes but in this instance she is a highly respected , intelligent broadcaster spouting forth on a very serious condition of which she is ignorant making sweeping statements that could set back seriously the understanding of mental health issues in general & anorexia in particular.

People repect this lady & may well accept her views rather than educating themseves. I recently attended a presentation on anorexia at which some research was presented including views not only of the general public but of health professionals on causation of anorexia & frankly similar views to Joan's were expressed as though it was a choice of the sufferer. Sufferers were deemed self-indulgent, self-obsessed, responsible for their own condition etc etc. I found this attitude very sad & complete tosh.

I think Joan was irresponsible.