to think my ex DP's financial mess will place a huge burden on my DDs?

[williaminajetfighter]

Ex-DP and I have always disagreed on our 'approach to money', one of the major factors for our break up. He refuses to save, will not budget, spends everything he makes (and often more) and thinks conversations about money are 'a downer' so always refused to have them or, when together, would just storm out when discussions arose! He is financially messy - doesn't keep track of spending, outgoings, direct debits and does stupid things like takes out £10 cash on a credit card at a transaction fee of £3! Genius! I could understand his POV if he didn't have money to save after paying bills but he makes almost £50k pa and has done for many years. (I do think his attitude comes from his family who lived 'day to day' and didn't think about the future.)

As a result he is now 53, almost 54, has no savings, investments, property and, importantly, no pension. He actually refuses to save for a pension as he says its a waste of money and a 'bad investment'. When together I forced him to put some money into a pension, which he did for a while but stopped. The resulting investment will give him a grand figure of £20/year on retirement! Hurrah!

When he retires, either at std retirement age or earlier if he has ill health etc, he won't have anywhere to live (that he can afford) and no money to live on, bar the national pension all of which will probably go to renting a bedsit somewhere. It looks dire to me - but he can't see it.

He is my EX so at the end of the day it's really not my problem anymore. But I worry so much for my 2 DDs (age 3 & 10) for whom this WILL be a problem. Not only will his lack of £ mean I'll have to carry the burden of covering the costs for Higher Education etc which is okay as i have saved for them (note - he will be retired by the time our youngest goes to University/Further Education) but I constantly envision a situation where my daughters are guilted out into looking after him, paying for his accommodation and life when retired. It's a big burden and worry for someone to have about a parent, especially for children in their late teens/early 20s as they will be. I'm so cross that he never thought about how his decisions will affect others in future.

I should probably add that my daughters are likely to inherit quite a bit of £ from my family and I partly think he's relying on a retirement of 'tapping them up' to get a 'piece of that action'. God. Not exactly the kind of father/daughter dynamic I was hoping for my children.

AIBU to worry about this? It's been preying on my mind a lot - and making me cross! I really don't know what to do except for save myself and educate my daughters on these issues.

if your dad knows what your ex is like can you have a conversation to pretty much say dont leave them anything and i will give the when its needed

Trusts can be complicated to set up and run. I'm not saying you shouldn't be recommending that to your father but I'd suggest that if he's going to leave them substantial sums, he should do it mostly in the form of property. Raw cash can be whittled away for various reasons but having a house - which could be rented, perhaps, so need be no financial burden on them day to day - makes it just that bit more difficult to do anything about immediately. 18 would be very young to face casual pressure from anybody - parent, partner, whoever.

In addition, it might give them enjoyment to do things with it as well as a sense of stability in having somewhere to go if things were to go pear shaped for them.

Possibly your overthinking on the financial situation has contributed to his devil may care attitude. You have no idea how he will behave in fifteen years time; just concentrate on planning for your daughters' security and leave him out.
Undoubtedly he will find another woman to fund him.

I don't think you're being controlling at all - your financially incontinent ex is a potential problem for your children. Get the best financial/legal advice about how to batten down their inheritance. I often feel grateful to my father whose careful husbandry left my mother pretty well-off when he died. Your children will doubtless learn from your example too.

Wow. Thanks for all the posts. I do think it's worth going back to my Dad to explain the situation and see if he can somehow cordon off funds in a way that they're not accessible. Investing into a property is def a good idea rather than having cash around.

My Dad is very sensible and when I was in my 20s and a bit wild my Dad was a rock both in terms of consistency and he did help financially sometimes as well. I feel bad that my daughters won't get that. That doesn't mean that ex DP won't be a good father but... Also I am very cross that Ex-DP will probably have to be looked after by the state when I see the state's role as supporting people who didn't have a choice in how they ended up, NOT people who frittered away their money. So wrong but then he never did have much of a moral centre anyway. sigh.

OP, you said "high six figures each". It's not entirely clear what that means, but I would interpret it as a sum approaching a million pounds. If so, then surely they can afford to help out their useless old dad for a few quid in his dotage, if they so choose, without impoverishing themselves?

but I constantly envision a situation where my daughters are guilted out into looking after him, paying for his accommodation and life when retired

If you in any way let them know you are thinking this, you will risk creating the very thing you worry about, by making it even a possibility'.
No, all you need to do is teach them to look after themselves, and let them know that his situation is entirely self created and nothing at all to do with them.

Educate your daughters into looking after their money and good investments, speak to your parents and explain about any future inheritance they may have etc.
Remember that most people don't fund higher education, this is your choice not a necessity.

Of course the Government will still provide money for pensioners to live somewhere and to eat. There is no Government that will put the many pensioners who rely on state pension, out on the streets. Many people who are poor all their lives, only get a state pension. He will survive.

Teach your daughters to be strong and withstand guilt tripping. But accept they may have a different view from yours.

Stop thinking about it. It's nothing to do with you. You look after your own money. I see where your coming from but your getting stressed over how some one else spends their money.

You can only educate your dd on money management but at the end of the day it's their money to do as they wish with too.

its a bit controlling op

Well if he drops down dead of a heart attack at 55 then he'll have been proved right, won't he?

It's clear you can't stand the man and I'm sure there are good reason for this but frothing about this is a bit pointless. You chose to have children with him, he's their dad, it is what it is. And the reality is that lots of people end up worn to the bone caring for elderly parents regardless of who's saved what. For all you know it could be you with dementia at 70 ringing your dd's 3 time a night because you can't find your father.

Honestly, deal with now and let the future take care of itself (although, yes, pensions are an excellent idea).

Sorry I don't have enough lunch hour left to read the full thread but didn't want to forget to comment.
He sounds extremely selfish and you're probably right he will end up trying to 'tap' his daughters. It's very hard to say to a parent that's in need also.
I actually can't offer a solution but I feel for you.
Parents like him make me angry. I'm 28 and my husband is 30 and we're expecting our first dc. Our mortgage will be paid off in 20 years, we have life insurance to cover mortgage should something happen, extra life insurance through work for 4x our salaries. Have been paying into pensions since each of us turned 18 and have a small amount of savings (taking a bashing for baby stuff just now). All of this is for our retirement and our child, or if we're lucky children. Its entirely possible to live within your means (espesh as he's earning a reasonable amount) and have life insurance even if you can't own a property. He's just assuming someone else will clear up his mess. I would have sympathy for him if he was a low earner struggling to pay rent on a 1 bedroom flat but that's not the case here.

- wow about your experiences and very tightly restricted trust fund. How did you feel about your dad growing up? Did you find it frustrating that he asked you for money? Did you have a good relationship with him or was it coloured by the economic disparity between the two of you? Or did that become a non issue in the end? How did things work out?

How did I feel about my dad and was it frustrating? Well, I was incredibly loyal and slightly naive, for the most part I loved my daddy and believed that none of his woes were his fault. With hindsight I realise he was a functioning alcoholic (at times non functioning). Once he came to see me at uni pleading poverty, so I dutifly marched to the cash point and withdrew £200, leaving me pretty broke for the rest of the month. He took the cash and then insisted on treating me to a nice meal at a posh restaurant with some of it- I could have wept as I ate the delicious lamb shank because I knew I'd have to spent the next 2 weeks living of pata and beans... There were times I felt huge waves of anger to him too.

He died when I was 23, so before I had access to the full balance.

I'm actually really glad my trust had all these clauses to it. When I was 25 I was desperate to get on the property ladder, but my aunt and uncle refused to petition the courts to release the funds. I felt they were treating me like a child - they felt I still had more growing up to do... Both of us probably had valid points.

But some of the clauses, like giving to charity, have stayed with me and shaped my financial behaviour now. I tend not to give to chuggers, but research some charities in the field I want to donate to and give to the one I think will use my money most effectively - normally they are quite small and a large donation can have a massive impact on their effectiveness at delivering a good service.

What is even more difficult for a mother to understand is that some of the children of non-contributing father despite seeing all the paper of their historic failures, these children then go on to think the sun shines out the backsides of these fathers while the mother is not given credit for what she did. (I realise this could also be the other way round).
That is so hurtful. I over heard someone talking about this. I thought my kids better not take this view.

Do you get the right amount of child support that he can't piss away?

I'd set up a trust too, to buy property for daughters and not give cash. Won't stop him tapping them up for cash they earn at work.

Hopefully he'll die young

I'd be getting your dad to tighten up the inheritance for dd - perhaps clause it can only be used to buy house/car ect or they get it split into lumps sums at certain ages 18,21,25 ect

Oh dear. If this was reversed, and a man was posting about his ex wife who owned no property and had no pension, he'd be torn to shreds (as usual).

Predictably, the usual MN double-standards apply to men and women's profligacy and material fecklessness.

He does sound bloody useless, but then I'd say the same about a woman in the same position. I do think it's time we stopped the infantilisation though!

Thx for all your messages and advice. babycham I don't think this is double standards in my pov. If I had a female partner I'd feel the same. Also it's not like we had agreed that he wouldn't work and was caring for children - he works FT but just pisses his salary away! I do think everyone should be more mindful of financial issues and not expect that others will sort the future for them, male or female! I think you agree with me though!

Salmiak Sorry to hear about your experiences with your dad. Thanks for sharing. It sounds v tough. Fancy dinner with daughter's money sounds like something my ex would do - sigh!