To Think the Tories Are Actually At War With Disabled People?

[JoffreyBaratheon]

I've been mired in the grim process of my son's DLA being changed to the new benefit, PIP. During this time, I have heard the stories of other disabled people and their loved ones. This may make me biased. Or human.

On every forum I have been on for help, can see that thousand of other disabled people, their carers, appointees and loved ones are being pretty well tortured by the vicious cuts and the new, brutal system being forced into place.

Benefits advisers and people at charities in the front line trying to support people like us also seem to report they feel like the disabled are under attack.

Now I will never understand why the most disadvantaged people in society are being forced to pay for the mistakes of bankers and rich people. Losing DLA will be a blow to our family - most of all my son but all of us - we won't recover from. To multi millionaires like Campbell, no doubt it's back pocket change so they are incapable of understanding what they are doing to ordinary people.

The past few months going through this hell, I've often felt like we might as well cut to the chase, sew the lack triangle on our clothes, and wait for the work camp to open. And I don't say that lightly, as someone whose grandad was present during the liberation of Belsen. (Wasn't it another tory - Gove - who said historians got it wrong and the British were donkeys led by lions, or words to that effect - so we know the contempt in which we are held by these chinless wonders already).

AIBU to think that people like Cameron and IDS are targeting disabled people and their carers, specifically?

Caught why don't you think they are wasting public money by not just giving you an indefinite award, then?

I have no problem with disabled people having extra money to eet the extra expenses they face. I do have a problem giving money to Capita, ATOS, and paying over the odds for 'medical professionals' who are ticking boxes after minimal training and not necessarily equipped with enough knowledge about every condition they are going to see. I also have a problem paying out thousands of pounds to administer all this again for you in two years, when really you should have got an indefinite award.

Why do you want to waste public money?

Caught I'm not surprised at your comments concerning the assessment centre. I took my good friend to an assessment, to find that there was no parking, no parking for BB holders, no lift and effectively no wheelchair access due to narrow doorways.

I don't want to waste public money. A review is a review and the chances are when I reapply I'll get granted it again because frankly my condition has been stable for years albeit stable in a shit place.

I agree they've got the wrong people doing the assessments and I've said that from the start. The benefit and the process aren't at fault it's the administration of it.

But I suppose that's what happens when you hand something to capita. Who are notorious for making a mess of things and spending vast sums of public money.

Luis sounds like my centre. Plus they had flickering strip lights and strong air fresheners that triggered every 30 seconds, not good for people with neurological issues that are triggered by flickering lights...

I won't even apply for pip :( Can't face it!

As some have pointed out here wrt to any disability/ sickness benefit, whoever thought up the forms designed them for almost all to fail, even the most deserving cases. It's not always cut and dry, not always black and white, not always as simple as ticking a box (if only!)
Those with fluctuating conditions or mental health problems seem to be regarded with suspicion and a total lack of understanding.

Also, there should be no cash incentive - I think there was, not sure if there still is - for those doing assessments, to get the sick back to work. Utterly dreadful.

When someone in the House of Commons joked that Atos had found Richard the Third fit for work they weren't too far off the truth.

Why review previously awarded lifetime conditions at all? Such a waste of resources, not to mention a cruel process for those who will not improve ever.

Also, all these sanctions (many unjust) are just this gov's way of punishing the poorest in society...

I'm sure this gov would love to put any one born into poverty, disabled or sick on an island somewhere and forget about them.

Society is being taught to despise the most vulnerable in this society...that's just what this gov wants... Pit ordinary people against each other while the real villains of the piece skim all the cream.

:(

Schmoo I reluctantly agree. Waiting for the usual positive me to kick in tomorrow

shmoo do apply. What I found helped was including a month long diary of what happens in my life. Who helps me do what, when my condition deteriorated, when I was admitted to hospital, basically break it all right down. It will make you cry, I bawled writing mine. I also got my husband to include a statement of what he does from his perspective and how it affects him.

Schmoo the things you mention are precisely why you should apply.

My hearing impaired husband never applied for DLA. Now he is thinking of applying for PIP even though they have moved the goalposts and made it harder for hearing impaired people to get.

Why's he applying? To cost the government more money. Because of what they've done to our son. Because he has decided if they are such arses, they can pay. And because he does genuinely have difficulties that are getting worse as his hearing deteriorates. If he gets turned down - he's cost them time and money applying.

He's been seen by loads of specialists and the GP.

If it's a cost cutting exercise then we should mobilise all those people who dithered about applying for DLA to go for this.

You don't have to fill the forms in yourself. Find a local disabled rights group in your area, or call a charity who can give you a local contact who may be able to advise you with the forms. I used to run the local branch of a national charity years ago and frequently did DLA forms with people. It helped that one of our members actually worked in their office and gave e loads of tips.

This time, I got help and just answered the questions verbally whilst the adviser filled it in for me. As she has done hundreds, she knows what they are looking for (and believe me, it's not as transparent as they pretend). I couldn't face yet another 100 page form having done the old DLA ones that were 30 odd pages each, all asking for the same info over and over....

Get all the help and support you can. You only have 4 weeks to fill it in and they count that from the date they send it. Morons. This meant some people who got them around xmas only got two weeks or less. So I was advised to book the appointment for my form filling in, the second the letter came with the forms. I was lucky to be seen just a couple of days before the deadline and we filled it in, in one go. It is easier than the old DLA forms - maybe because it's so poorly designed and half baked!

You can ask for an extension if you need it. I got an extra month.

Luis :)

Caught, Thanks for the encouragement and for sharing your experience. I think part of my reluctance stems from my sometimes crippling anxiety, the fact my condition fluctuates - (and is seen as a bit of a non-diagnosis...they base it on excluding everything else!) - and that I am only currently under my GP's care makes it too daunting.
My GP is great but I have not seen any specialists since I was diagnosed. After diagnosis I was pretty much left to it as it's not a condition that responds to treatment or that can be fixed with meds. My doctor helps me to manage my condition as best as they can. I haven't been hospitalised.
If people with reams of medical notes from numerous specialists, consultants and stints in hospital get turned down, I think I'd be putting myself through hell for nothing.

Caught, you 'bawled'? I thought you didn't do hysteria.

I didn't 'bawl' doing my son's because that would be fecking pointless. And he is my child. Imagine how that feels. Because frankly, if it was me I was doing this for and not my child, I wouldn't be so bothered. As his appointee, I did it for him. I kept cool, calm, and tried to deliver the best I could which may have worked as he is one of the lucky few to get a paper based review.

I've cried enough tears over his autism.

Tears are self pity even when ostensibly they are for someone else they are still, ultimately, for yourself. My advice to you would be to forget self pity and get angry. 'I'm alright Jack' is not a good attitude to have beause again, it shows more concern with yourself than with others.

'Hysteria' to me is a sexist word - too often used against women - so I don't use it, as a rule. To point out a cruel and flawed system - one developed by a political party that people actually voted for - is not hysterical. It is pragmatic, cold, hard fact.

It does seem odd that on one hand you think I'm 'hysterical' and on the other, you're sharing with us that the process made you cry.

It didn't fecking make me cry. It made me want to get even.

I don't do hysteria in terms of debates and conversation, no. But when it comes to documenting my life and switching off my usual "I'm fine I'm coping life is wonderful" self and admitting to myself I need help to get washed and dressed and I can't prepare a meal for myself and I need to be roused in the mornings to take my medications and I don't have a social life... I do work, because I want to and I make myself do it to appear normal. But to go to work takes a lot of team work and effort from my family. And yes, I cried, because it's a lot to admit to.

I feel you anger is misplaced. You're angry at a system you haven't yet had an outcome from. What a complete waste if energy.

Caught if I were the OP I'd be fecking angry too. Because this is all so unnecessary. She and her son have already had one "outcome" and now they have to renavigate this dehumanising system to get another one. At some point in the recent past, the government's decision makers accepted the evidence of her son's medical professionals and agreed he was disabled for life and would need assistance in the form of DLA for life. Now, entirely because of an ideological position dressed up as cost-cutting and "incentivisation", those same decision makers are effectively saying "ignore what we told you previously, we need you to prove you're still disabled again (despite the fact you don't get better from your condition), only this time we'll virtually ignore the evidence of your doctors and consultants and specialists and base the decision almost entirely on the opinion of an occupational therapist with a target to get X number of people off these benefits". And while I'm glad for you that your experience of claiming was relatively painless, that is not the experience of far too many people. There are too many horror stories of wilful misunderstanding during the assessment interview, of a default position of turn-them-down-and-if-they're-serious-they-can-always-appeal, of hardship and despair, so it's hardly surprising the OP expects the worst - the worst is really happening to a significant proportion of PIP applicants, even if you weren't one of them.

By all means, reasses conditions that are known to be capable of improvement at regular intervals. But for those which are lifelong - or, in the case of one of my DH's conditions, degenerative - it is a pointless, stressful, profligate, belittling, fucking stupid exercise.

Did DLA give 'lifetime' awards? DS2 got an 'indefinite' award, but the accompanying letter said it could still be subject to review. This does make you feel anxious, because a review could (in theory) happen at any time. At least with a fixed term you know when it will be.
We have friends whose daughter has a rare condition which will not improve. We have seen at first hand the anxiety caused to the whole family when she has to reapply, and I do think some conditions should have lifelong awards.

Fairy-then of course you would score as needing an aid if your reduced grip strength was consistent with your condition and physical exam.

Well said Page.

page but the system has changed since her son was given his award so it stands to reason he gets assessed again. From what's been posted by the op though it sounds as if it is purely a paper exercise and life will continue as before.

Larry - this would be around 1995 or 6, and the words 'for life' were on there. I have seen people who got some kind of indefinite (forget the wording for that) awards since say "For Life" never existed. But it did.

There was no point reviewing it because, like many people with all kinds of conditions but the same award, there was no realistic prospect of "cure". It wastes money to keep reviewing it, and this government's disingenuous excuse to get rid of those longterm awards was "Well it could get worse and then you'd want to apply for more". But so far as I was aware, there was never anything in the system stopping people doing that? And in any case, we hit the ceiling in 1995 and there was nowhere else to go with it.

In other news, I was reading on another forum that someone went to hand the keys back to the Motability car dealer and was told there had been 20 other people doing the same, that day.

Imagine that across the country. Every dealer we went in had a dedicated Motability adviser. This is going to cost a lot of jobs in the car industry, too. But then tory governments have never been known for joined up thinking.

Caught you really don't get it do you? I'm angry whatever my son's outcome is - I'm angry about all the things mentioned above. I don't just care about myself. I ran a large branch of a charity for kids with a certain disability for a few years and before that I was a teacher with an interest in special needs. I had old fashioned parents maybe, but I was wired to care about others, not just me and mine.

I'll repeat. Whatever the outcome for my son, this system is degrading and inhumane. With respect you have no experience of the system as it was. many here, have.

PIP is not about paying for the extra costs of having a disability. I am disabled, have bladder incontinence, and can only cook ready made meals. Does not matter, I do not qualify for PIP. PIP is about people who need a carer.

I think at the last audit only a couple of % of assessments were paper based.

The fact my son has been incredibly lucky to get a paper based assessment, doesn't make me care any less about what is happening to everyone with disabilities, Caught.

Plus I am aware the decision maker could take one look at it and say Capita haven't gathered enough evidence, and still demand a face to face. This kind of threatening uncertainty is precisely what I'm talking about, in terms of the whole thing not just my son's specific situation.

I'll expend my righteous anger on the internet all I like, Caught, but if I have to go to any appeal, I will execute that with absolute cool, calm, collected strength of character, and systematically ensure my son gets the best outcome. No crying for me, no self pity, just get on with it - as parents of disabled kids do, the whole of our lives.

But. Fair enough. I'm in my 50s. Who does this for him when I'm gone?

Now do you get it?

Currently doing DD''s DLA renewal. She needs constant supervision and can't be left alone in a room or let go of outside, and is up half the night but still I am really worried we will lose it.

I hope your son gets it OP.

I don't think reading the horror stories in advance is good for ones mental health. Am avoiding them now.

No. I really don't get it. The system has changed. It's got fairer for those with fluctuating conditions and I really do think you're getting angry over nothing