To Think the Tories Are Actually At War With Disabled People?

[JoffreyBaratheon]

I've been mired in the grim process of my son's DLA being changed to the new benefit, PIP. During this time, I have heard the stories of other disabled people and their loved ones. This may make me biased. Or human.

On every forum I have been on for help, can see that thousand of other disabled people, their carers, appointees and loved ones are being pretty well tortured by the vicious cuts and the new, brutal system being forced into place.

Benefits advisers and people at charities in the front line trying to support people like us also seem to report they feel like the disabled are under attack.

Now I will never understand why the most disadvantaged people in society are being forced to pay for the mistakes of bankers and rich people. Losing DLA will be a blow to our family - most of all my son but all of us - we won't recover from. To multi millionaires like Campbell, no doubt it's back pocket change so they are incapable of understanding what they are doing to ordinary people.

The past few months going through this hell, I've often felt like we might as well cut to the chase, sew the lack triangle on our clothes, and wait for the work camp to open. And I don't say that lightly, as someone whose grandad was present during the liberation of Belsen. (Wasn't it another tory - Gove - who said historians got it wrong and the British were donkeys led by lions, or words to that effect - so we know the contempt in which we are held by these chinless wonders already).

AIBU to think that people like Cameron and IDS are targeting disabled people and their carers, specifically?

Not a big fan of benefits, disability or otherwise, are you Ponty?

I'm not sure how much more strongly benefits can be regulated. Go and have a PIP assessment and tell us how easy you found it.

Sorry, can you demonstrate or expose the propaganda that works in favour of the poor?

Ponty Should you vaccinate your children you have chosen to believe government figures. Why would you then choose not to believe government figures regarding benefits. It's a logical fallacy known as cherry picking. Doesn't function as an argument at all.
As for your ridiculous comment about governments not having a monopoly on the media, why? Did you somehow think that too was a sustainable argument? I'm afraid your total lack of comprehension with regard to the way the government and media function, along with your ability to drag up almost every logical fallacy in the book rather invalidates anything you would wish to add to the argument.

I think that Tories and their ilk see it like this:

1. We are not disabled. So hurting disabled people won't hurt us. 2)Disabled people who are on benefits are poor. Therefore they won't vote Tory, therefore hurting them won't harm our election prospects.
2. Anyway, most of them, like anyone who is on benefits, are lazy malingers and had it coming.

Actually you are wrong there I think benefits are a sign of a civilised society, I think it is important to support those who need it, but I think we need regulation and the level does need to be questioned. The questioning of how the government distributes its budget hold the government to account.

It IS regulated ffs!

Figures are published!

What more do you want?

Yes, I agree the regulation needs much much tighter controls for the super rich who receive the vast majority of benefits in this country.

"the number of "fraud" cases doe not necessarily reflect the number of questionable claims, of course the true extent of this will not be known."

Do you have any evidence of that Ponty or is it just anti-welfare state rhetoric?

I've never seen any reports or investigations that suggest "questionable claims" are the reason for changing DLA to PIP or indeed that there are many questionable claims.

For the avoidance of doubt and any goady fuckers on this thread, PIP is not means tested and therefore, not an out of work benefit. In fact, it enables people to be able to work. I claim DLA which helps me pay for the extra help I need to manage working life. Thanks to this, I am able to contribute to society and pax my taxes.

Can I just remind everyone that this latest round of cuts to disability payments is to fund tax cuts to the middle class and wealthy. Even the Torygraph is admitting as such.

but I think we need regulation and the level does need to be questioned.
It's regulated.
Do you mean the level of claim or the level of financial award?

Given that somewhere in the region of 25 per dent of public spending is on welfare payments of some sort then this a key to managing the budget.

How much more regulation would it take?

Medical evidence (from various actual medical professionals), a medical exam (from a non medically briefly trained previous accountant) an interview the most resilient person would find very difficult and dozens of forms and hundreds of questions.

That if you are very lucky will only be repeated every three years or so.

Seriously - why are all the hand wringing tax payers never concerned about the huge sum of money wasted on the extra regulation already in place (because doctors can't be trusted to tell the truth about someone being disabled 😡) and all the appeals being carried out and generally won (so they were pointless).

This waste of tax doesn't bother them. But someone who can't walk, talk or eat having an extra penny more than they need to survive on... That's an issue.

Trying to be accurate

And how much of welfare spending is paid out in pensions Pontytidy? And how much on disability benefits?

The largest percentage is pensions.

Wonder if people are fiddling them too...

No one who has direct experience of the illness/disability-related benefits could possibly think it was unregulated or that it was easy to make a "questionable" claim.

If you don't have that direct experience then you are talking out of your arse and your opinion is worth about the same as my cat's fart. Because you can have no idea of how soul destroying, demeaning, stressful, worrying, time consuming and emotionally draining it is to have to prove, then re-prove, then correct the misunderstandings in the wilful misinterpretation of your proof, then re-prove again the fact that yes, you're still disabled.

My husband is seriously ill with two separate disabilities, one of which is degenerative. He will NEVER GET BETTER. He shouldn't have to keep justifying why his conditon will never improve and why he needs assistance, laying the most embarrassing aspects of his condition bare over and over again in order to access some pretty minimal help to allow him not only to get through his days and nights, but also to still feel like society hasn't written him off completely. He shouldn't have to keep justifying it to the government's lackeys and he certainly shouldn't have to keep justifying it to judgy goady fuckers who wouldn't actually be any personally better off or see any material difference to their lives if he suddenly stopped receiving his benefits.

The left don't really need those of us who disagree with them on threads like this as they tend to hang themselves with their own rope. The nation voted in the Tories to ensure things were fairer and we live within our means.

I am sure no one on this thread even of the left thinks non means tested disability benefits which got to the rich are fair surely?

All of us, left and right support a form of welfare state. It is not good enough for the left to say the right doesn't. We do. We want tighter control of state spending however which these measures might well achieve.

it is very simple - if you're managing your family's money you don't spend more than you have even if it means you don't have all you want immediately. It is the same with the nation - we best protect the less fortunate by being more careful with our money now. If you spend into oblivion you might buy some left wing votes but ultimately you damage the disabled and those who rely on a solvent state. There is no huge money pot waiting to be plundered for everything everyone might want.

Deo Xenia Using your logic, we should means test all public services.

P.S. None of them people posting about PIP anxieties on here are rich. I can say that with the upmost confidence. People who are rich don't cry about losing £200 odd quid a month because it's nowt to them.

It's not about managing your finances! What breathtaking arrogance. Tighter control of state spending doesn't have to target those who can least afford it. Moreover your precious Tories promised to protect the very people they are now shafting.

You're right Deo threads like this can do without the lines of you, not because you're a Tory supporter but because you have no empathy. Go buy an island or something.

There is no huge money pot waiting to be plundered for everything everyone might want.

Ohaahahahahahahahohohoho The money is there. No one is asking for the life of Riley, just a level of decency that any civilised first world society can afford them.

My cousin became seriously unwell as a toddler and survived but can't walk, talk, feed himself, wash himself or do anything for himself. He needs 2 carers to move him out of his wheelchair; to change his pads and to turn him at night to avoid pressure sores. His parents earned (still do) very good money but no amount of financial planning would have covered what he needs. His 24 hour basic care needs (not including social activities or education or medical needs) is costing circa £90k per year.

Have a look at the comments on the Daily Fail article about PIP being slashed today. The vast majority think its disgusting. I never thought I'd see the day. That speaks volumes to me.

The Govt have gone too far. It's £1bn. On Wednesday tax cuts are going to be announced for higher earners. What was that people were saying about needing to balance the books?

Yes, because ensuring the disabled and most vulnerable are kept above the poverty line is exactly the same as deciding not to go on holiday this year because you haven't had much overtime. And it's not as if there are any alternatives to cutting disabled benefits, are there? If only there were some tax-dodging corporations to pursue, or an unneccessary and unpopular rail extension that could be shelved, or a defence system that in reality will never be used that could be scrapped, or...or...or...