To use a 'foreign' name for DC?

[TrueBlu]

There has been some debate in recent months about names you can/can't use on baby names.

So my question is, is it ur to use a name when you have no connection to its country of origin. Would you be appropriating the culture it came from?

Also, when is it 'okay' to Anglicise names?

E.g. I could use Connor instead of Conchobhar, or Neve instead of Niamh, but not Zanthe instead of Xanthe or Eefa instead of Aoife.

This is why I called my son Æthelstan. I don't believe in post-1066 names; it might offend the Normans.

"Imhmm at people suggesting don't use a foreign name as it'll be hard to spell and pronounce. In 2016, really?! "

You want to try living with a difficult name Mistress. Easy to say it's not a big problem if you don't have to face it. I've had people mangle my name, call me 'what's it', refuse to talk to me at all because they can't cope with it etc. etc. I have a Welsh name and live in Wales so I'm not going to change it, but I wouldn't deliberately give someone a difficult name if it was a name from another country with which the child has no connection.

"Everyone I know pronounce it ser-en"

Yes, that's correct. It's the Welsh word for star so its pronunciation is pretty clear.
The original complaint was about the second 'e' being pronounced as 'uh' which is something I also don't like. Bethan is like Beth and Anne, not like Bethun. On the other hand, I think there are some that we have to admit as lost. Gareth is so well known as Garuth that it's probably not going to change now and Dylan being pronounced as Dillon and being made famous with that pronunciation after Dylan Thomas.

I have a 'foreign' name despite no 'foreign' heritage.

I was named for a friend of my parents, who was of the relevant nationality, so not entirely a random choice.

It's not an outlandish name, though, and there are other Brits with my name. I like it and always have.

I'd put Xanthe in a similar bracket. It's a lovely name and shouldn't cause many spelling or pronounciation problems.

I don't hugely understand the angst about having to spell names if you pick something currently more unusual. I grew up in the 80s with a relatively (for then) unusual name, as did my siblings. We liked being the only X in the school surrounded by Rebeccas, Katies and Sarahs. As adults our names are no longer unusual or considered tricky to spell but 30y ago they were. It absolutely doesn't / didn't bother me spelling the name out.

I have picked slightly more unusual names for my children, but names that are easy to pronounce. Our eldest has a Celtic name (but easy to say in English) but our Spanish friends struggle with it. When we chose the name (which we love) we considered more Mediterranean names, but got a lot of criticism from family members which put oh off. After we realised that this easy to say name, didn't translate so well with other accents it gave oh the confidence to go with a less English sounding name for our subsequent children.

The only thing I get judgy about when it comes to names, is deliberately quirky spellings for otherwise straightforward names or phonetically spelling a name, which then spoils a pretty original spelling . I don't think you can make up a spelling.

gwen I'm in north Wales and we still say the ans so dyl-an and we also say the eth in Gareth depending on whether the person is Welsh or English. I think down south it starts to get pronounced uth and understand and then in England too. I'm de railing sorry. I don't think using foreign names is cultural appropriation but I am also not part of the cultures that have issues with appropriation

Gwenhwyfar yes, Megan is another, I guess.
Obviously pronunciation varies between areas, too. I think in the north it might well be Seh-ren. In my part of Wales, its more like (but not quite) like Say-Ren without the 'y' sound. sêr singular has the roof with makes that vowel long so the short 'eh' isn't used. But yes mostly my beef is with making it end in 'un'.

Still doesn't make sense Janet.

By your reasoning, no Arabic or Hebrew or Greek or Hindi or Russian or whatever modern names may be used in English as they will all have to be anglicized since they are transliterated into roman script in any case.

Ridiculous.

And at some point established names were 'avant garde'

I'm sorry you can't understand. You seem to have trouble seeing that its not just what you're anglicising, but where you're taking it from. Shame you can't get it.

"I don't hugely understand the angst about having to spell names if you pick something currently more unusual. "

NeverNic, I think you have to experience having a difficult name. It might be OK having to explain that you're Sara not Sarah, but explaining a name that people haven't come across before is really hard work. Some people don't get it at all even if you slow right down fr them. I've had colleagues who've just told me they're not even going to try and say or remember my name.

"I think down south it starts to get pronounced uth and understand and then in England too."

It's not a north or south thing, it's whether you understand Welsh pronunciation rules. I presume you either speak Welsh or understand how to read it.

"In my part of Wales, its more like (but not quite) like Say-Ren without the 'y' sound."

I don't get what you mean there at all. I live in south Wales and the pronunciation here is the same as in the north - I know a few Serens. Obviously some southern accents elongate the last but one syllable (in most words not just Seren). Is that what you mean?

Janet it doesn't help that you've only given Irish and Welsh examples.

What names from other cultures do you object to being anglicised?

I can see both sides of the argument, btw.

A good rule of thumb is if it's a country where English was forced on the people and their own language forced out, then don't steal the names they've managed to keep their own spellings of and make English versions of them now.
Seems fairly obvious to me.

Our eldest has a name more assosiated with America. Easy spelling and pronounciation. Unusual but a recognised name.
Youngest has a spanish nick name (we knew we were moving to spain in future, so we looked at spanish names and fell in love with one) Again, easy spelling and pronunciation, but did cause some gentle questioning in the uk early on. But its a pleasant sounding name, and lovely meaning. Its lovely having it recognised here in Spain without question.
Although DS1 name has now taken on a completely different pronunciation, due to accent differences :)

Still need examples...

The British empire was vast...are you ruling out all names from ex-empire countries?

Gwenhwyfar - my name was considered exotic when I was growing up, with silent letters so the spelling wasn't easy (though not a made up spelling). Nowadays it's more recognisable because of a famous person so people normally don't struggle to spell it, though not that many babies are called it. Of course I don't have the most difficult name to say or spell, probably in comparison to you but still people hear my name incorrectly and I am on occasions called other names. My guess is that your name is extremely tricky to say and spell, so perhaps prospective parents should consider both how it's heard and spelt, but I don't think they should be put off from choosing a name that is unfamiliar. My parents thought they were being 'unique' in the 80s and now my sibling's name features on popular baby lists.

The other thing as well now, a lot of towns are more diverse through immigration. We have a thriving polish community in our town and quite a few families moving here from other countries in Eastern Europe. A lot of the children at my children's school therefore don't have an easily pronounceable name from looking at the spelling, but you just learn it. Unusual names don't seem that unusual to my children.

My parents gave me a traditional English name. Which is pretty rare so even though it's totally phonetic, people assume its a similar name or spell it wrong.
So we gave our kids short traditional fairly-common English names. One gets assumed to be Somali or Arabic (Old Testament...), the other Hispanic! Though at least they get pronounced correctly.

The British empire was vast...are you ruling out all names from ex-empire countries

just the ones where the language was legislated and beaten out of the natives. Not sure how much clearer I can be on this point, you don't have to agree but I hope you're pretending not to be able to understand it, its a simple point.

Gwen the syllable is like the 'e' in "enw" or "beth" (the welsh for what, not the name) so Se-ren as opposed to the 'e' in Gwen or When. I was trying (badly!) to transcribe that sound phonetically for those who don't speak or hear welsh words often.

"My guess is that your name is extremely tricky to say and spell"

People who can't speak Welsh generally find it impossible rather than tricky. It's not just saying and spelling though, there are times when an approximate spelling and pronunciation would be OK, it's also the fact that people can't remember it to save their lives and can't remember the shortened easier version I've given them either. They then sometimes just avoid talking to me at all. I get into arguments if I call somewhere and the person who answers insists on getting the spelling and I insist that it's the organisation I work for that counts and that the spelling of my name doesn't matter and there's a huge waste of time. I also think that if I apply for a very basic job, an employer might not call me back because they can't deal with the name. You might think it's paranoia, but when you see how some people react to it...In fact I was ridiculed on TV for it.

Gwen. I'm now massively nosey curious as to what your name is? (unless Gwenhwyfar is your actual name?))

No, not Genhwyfar. My name is not that rare among Welsh speakers, although people often think my parents must have made it up, but it's rare enough that posting it on here would definitely out me.
A colleague asked me a couple of months ago if I'd ever considered changing it. While I think it was a bit of a rude question, I have of course considered it, but am proud of my heritage. There's no way I could cope with all these problems if the name came from a culture that had nothing to do with my heritage.

Fair enough. My mother has a very welsh name beginning with Gwen. Its interesting when she's on the phone to Indian call centres to say the least!

"Imhmm at people suggesting don't use a foreign name as it'll be hard to spell and pronounce. In 2016, really?! "

It being 2016 hasn't given everyone the magical powers to be able to read names in languages they don't speak.