To cry over state pension age speculation rise to 75-81

[feellikeahugefailure]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/12179375/Work-till-youre-75-or-even-81-under-Government-review-of-state-pension-age.html

Where has it all gone wrong? My parents could buy a home one one income for 3 times annual wage. Dad retired at 55, mum never needed to work and has been claiming a state pension for over a decade since 60. I do a similar job to my dad.

Where I live the average house price is 13 times my wage. My pension I've been paying into for over 10 years will if I keep paying into it for almost 40 more years give me 2'000 a year if it does averagely and 1'000 if it does poorly, and it probably will do poorly. Then no state pension until I'm about to drop dead. Can't afford a house or to put money away for retirement.

I know. I am one of the very very few who is a net payer. You just feel in my position everyone is taking from you all the time.

Is that a joke ?

Seriously, I think that's a massively selfish individualist viewpoint deo. Tax is the thing we pay to live in an enlightened place where no kid goes hungry, no-one dies of common, preventable disease, and everyone can get a decent(ish) education. And we ALL benefit from those things. Every. Single. Last. One. Of. Us. Society isn't something 'out there' - it's something we all contribute to and benefit from.

Oh, and according to the ONS anyone who earns over about 40k is a net payer. That's around 2/5 of the population, so we are not exactly a tiny minority.

Recent governments have been responsible for keeping young people in education until 18; encouraging a majority to go to university; bringing in student loans. Did none of them see the effect this would have on pension funding? They created the problem and are now saying that the solution is to make people work until they drop.

Hang on....wages have been held down,tax cuts to people earning over £150,000, billions of money not collected in taxes.Can't afford pensions?! Money has/is being taken from most of us for pensions either through pension contributions and/or NI contributions...Where is all that money? The Government will be saving if they extend the age of retirement and where is all that money that is already
owed to us (especially women) with the sate pension age changed already? We pay the taxes either through VAT or paye. We vote the government in, or out. We should be asking where is our money?

Deo hate to disagree with you but there are so many intangibles when discussing tax contribution that it is almost impossible to say that you contribute more than you take out.

The main point of this is that the society you live in facilitates your ability to earn what you do, if the cleaner couldn't get to work, if your secretary couldn't work because she had to care for her elderly mother, if your colleagues hadn't been educated etc etc, if the roads around you weren't kept up to scratch, what would the knock on effects on your ability to ear be? No one really pays more than they take out because of these intangible benefits and in fact the highest earners are faciitated far more by the government spending on these things as the nature of economics is that the more you earn the wider a base you need to support your work.

Its what irks me about corporations paying so little tax, they benefit massively from being part of our society and contribute relatively little back, in fact there are several arguments to say that these are the real ones in tax deficit and part of the reasons why we face deals like the ones mooted above.

But it's not your money - that's the point. In the vast majority of cases it's what you've paid in plus a substantial amount more "Enjoying" your retirement - by which many seem to mean holidays and leisure time - is not an entitlement

Yes, it is your money..You pay in all your life to get your pension. You used to be able to pay in extra to increase your pension later on. Governments were supposed to use the money to ensure that they could pay you a pension when you retired at a rate that meant you could live on that pension. State pension is not a benefit it is an entitlement. Many people die before they ever claim it - or within 10 years.

On average I think people are living for more than two decades after claiming pensions, though of course some die before receiving at all.

The major advantage of corporations being based here is the PAYE and NI take. Corporation tax is generally less important, plus while high profile large companies do move profits around, Uk only companies and many others do not.

I suspect Deo with her millions, her own very successful company and her privately educated children actually is a net contributor.

There was a BBC documentary a few years ago which showed the point at which people became net contributors and it was surprisingly low. Well under £100k from memory.

shove is right - the top 40% of earners i.e. a minority, albeit a significant one, are apparently net contributors:

www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2215070/Are-contributor-burden-nations-finances--Squeezed-middle-increasingly-dependent-state.html

In no way am I denigrating net absorbers, but this helps to explain why there isn't extra money for pensions etc

On the net payer thing... doesn't it depend on consumption, too? I mean, we all pay VAT, plus indirectly by purchasing goods & services we all contribute to what becomes corporate tax. Plus there is council tax. Anyway, I wondered if the "who is a net payer" calculators take into account VAT, especially.

Lower income people pay a much higher % of their income to VAT (typically) compared to higher income people.

Problem is with that analysis is that it doesn't account for a huge number of intangible benefits that have been paid for by society, its not wide or deep enough to really take a full account.

Anyway, apart from an extremely small percentile we all die in tax deficit

As a pensioner you will still be contributing to society, buying things, going out and about, holidays, looking after grandchildren, looking after elderly parents - carers etc. Still paying tax, via VAT or on income. Pensioners and we are not a problem. Those businesses getting away with not paying their fair share of tax are the problem!

the point at which people became net contributors

it will depend on how you quantify things and what you measure, in order to run a successful business you need a modern stable country this comes about via various multiple interacting factors.
Wealth is created by people working together and co operating over time, even inventors and innovators dont create things 'de novo' they use products, idea's and theories, institutions which already exist.

Those who are wealthy got that way because they were able to cream off the wealth created by others

My DM worked until she was 78, but this was partly because she needed the money because her state pension was crap as she had time off to have kids.....

Those who are wealthy got that way because they were able to cream off the wealth created by others

Exactly, there's not room at the top for everyone.

Pensioners and we are not a problem. Those businesses getting away with not paying their fair share of tax are the problem!

There is more than one problem. The tax system should be changed ni and income rolled into one. Its unfair pensioners on huge pensions that pay no NI.

I think things like typical VAT paid were included in the net contributor study.

"Anyway, apart from an extremely small percentile we all die in tax deficit"

I don't know if this is true or not; but if true, therein lies the problem!

she had time off to have kids
penalized for doing the most important work of all...producing new members of society, the next generation to build on the work of previous generations and create the future

So who in the hell will want an 81 year old teacher in their classes? How can they cope? We have a retired teacher in our school [ who comes in to do supply] and is pretty out of date and the children take the piss!!! How on earth would that work in certain lines of work. Its totally unrealistic. Basically, you will be paying into a pension you will never see, thats the plot.

I am 45 and I was delighted when I saw those headlines. The thought of being retired for 30 years fills me with dread.

Bluefolly the thought of being in the classroom at 81 fills me with horror.

Again, the 81 year old thing is nothing to do with government announcements. It's a private company assessing at what age lifestyle would match that enjoyed by current retires.

oo many people

What did people expect?