To cry over state pension age speculation rise to 75-81

[feellikeahugefailure]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/12179375/Work-till-youre-75-or-even-81-under-Government-review-of-state-pension-age.html

Where has it all gone wrong? My parents could buy a home one one income for 3 times annual wage. Dad retired at 55, mum never needed to work and has been claiming a state pension for over a decade since 60. I do a similar job to my dad.

Where I live the average house price is 13 times my wage. My pension I've been paying into for over 10 years will if I keep paying into it for almost 40 more years give me 2'000 a year if it does averagely and 1'000 if it does poorly, and it probably will do poorly. Then no state pension until I'm about to drop dead. Can't afford a house or to put money away for retirement.

People that say "earn more" or "at least people in their 30s have time to save more" really vex me.

At least those in their 50s are likley to receive some kind of state pension, so no I dont think they are the ones most dun over.

I am a computer programmer. The thought of doing that at 81 is hilarious really. Not sure I will be fit for anything at that age tbh. I can bearly remember my name now as it is

Hear hear Tinkly. Nicely put. The pensions "industry" is a Mafia. Compared to our peers in the Netherlands (who save about as much as us, from similar incomes with similar expenses) we retire on between 75- 80% of their pensions, from the same size investment pots. No one has explained satisfactorily why UK schemes are permitted to fleece their customers so comprehensively.

Cleaty I don't understand what's happened to your pension. You say you paid in to a LA pension from 21. What happened to it? It hasn't disappeared. It's an excellent pension.

I'm loving the "personal responsibilty" crowd on here, its effectively the "I'm alright Jack" argument.

Pensions are a huge problem mainly because those working are paying for those in retirement. We are required to pay taxes in order to participate in society whilst working and part of that is the requirement that society looks after us when we are finished.

Yes, but people are less and less keen on paying tax and less and less keen on caring for the elderly. This is not a good combination.

The problem is that those who have benefitted from cheap housing, jobs for life, and defined benefit pension schemes, are the disproportionately protected by the Government, what with its entirely unnecessary triple lock on the state pension (i.e. 2.5% increase even if earnings and inflation are below that level).

Haven't had time to rtft ut has anyone done an FOI request on the number of people who don't live long enough to collect their state pension, like my husband, my two friends , my cousin...where does their money go? All died within a year of each other.

Sometimes we are fed only what THEY want us to know.

I think when the state pension was set up, it was assumed a lot of people would die before reaching the age to claim it. The problem is that a higher proportion of people are now not only surviving to claim it but also living for longer than anticipated. The state pension was not about paying your money in and then getting it back, it was about everyone supporting each other.

the personal responsibility argument is not even vaguely connected to an "I'm alright jack" argument.

It's connected to a - be realistic about how life works - argument.

it's connected to a be realistic about how end stage capitalism works argument, perhaps

OP, my point about people under 30 (key point that) having more time to pay in was me trying to see a pp's perspective, and if you notice, that was qualified by a big if about their earning potential.

We are all shafted by this, but women in their 50s are most shafted, as they have paid in longest to something that will suddenly not be available to them for a further 6 years, at an age when they can do little about it.

I fully agree with tinkly and cresset.
the way our pensions system is set up is crap.
The state system is on its way out wo even a discussion about it. IT's all 'on we can't do more than that. We'll raise the limit again' which means it is just disappearing wo even trying to make it work. And without a discussion about it. The same than the NHS really.

And then the private sector is in effect making a lot of money out of the idea that we should all have a private pension (as imposed by the governemnt too) but there is so little regulation that low return on investments (if you look carefully,they are appauling) and charges right, left and center means that people are left with nothing.
And that's wo talking about the fact that private pensions that are company based are linked with said company and if the company goes under, a llot of people will be left with nothing.

e are merely reproducing the system that is ioon the US atm, a system that we know is highly inequal and doesn't look after the most vulnerable people. All the while we are refusing to look at what other countrie are doing, the ones who still have proper health system and a proper pension system because 'you know it jsut doesn't work. People just have to takle responsibility.'
The thing is yes people need to take more responsibility but they have done by paying taxes for their pension to the State. they have done so by paying their private pension and it's still not enough. eg Dh private pension would not cover our costs of living even after the dcs have gone and we have paid our morgage. And he is at managerial level now with a big input from his own compay etc ....
These epnsions were set up as an add on to the state pension not as stand alone to be able to live from iyswim

Tinkly
Good post. Pension funds need looking into. I also agree that this is a wider social problem. I will probably be OK, I have a high enough salary to save and a reasonable employers pension. However, I do worry about the DC and I am thinking how to help them (which in itself perpetuates the inequality in society [blush).

I once rented a room off a woman in her late 60's who was going out at 5am every morning to clean offices (it was probably a dodgy sub-let as she was renting herself). She had only paid the married woman's stamp and then her husband left her, so she had a minimal state pension. She was exhausted and fed up but couldn't afford not to work.

not [blush)

I work in pharmacy, there is a lady who works in my shop who is 80, she is helping her son pay a mortgage because he cannot afford it alone. We also have 2 70 year old women who both work part time around caring for grandchildren.

there wont be enough useful work to go round
many current jobs will be automated
elder care will be done by robots
we'll all have to retire early or be given some sort of boondoggle occupation to keep us out of mischief

This generation grandparents have helped out a lot with the grand children but when it comes to current dc we will all still be working. More business for nurseries probably

Shop work??? What shops? We all shop around, then buy on line. Retail sector is 20% smaller than it was a decade ago!

the problem is that the people at the top are hoarding all the wages/property/wealth...all those landlords existing parasitically off of those who are forced to rent
large companies paying wages that have to be topped up by benefits

We all reap what we sow in life.

That is staggeringly naive. I worked incredibly hard as a teen and did very well at a top university. l'm in my 30's and spend every day in bed because of a disability. My case might be extreme but lots of people work hard and don't manage to do very well at work.

My parents are late sixties. I look at their wide (wealthy) friendship group and honestly most of them are battling serious health problems. About half have had cancer. Lots care for grandchildren. How do their children afford childcare if their parents can't help out? Both my parents do voluntary jobs - in no way could either work full time - both get fatigue having had cancer. They both give a lot back to their local communities. My father, incidentally, struggled enormously to find work after the age of 50 and he had a very good career.

Obviously we have a pension problem and something needs to change but what is being proposed isn't feasible.

Although maybe antibiotic resistance is going to be much more of a problem in future years and the population issues we have as a planet are going to, er, reduce anyway and we're worrying for nothing.
I really wish a government would sort social housing too. I think that is at the root of most of our problems.

Flashbangandgone - exactly. I think that where resentment arises is when people (some people) who have benefited hugely from these schemes don't seem to understand that, even though they may have worked hard and made good decisions during their working lives, they have also been exceptionally lucky: sometimes they assume their children aren't trying hard enough if they aren't also following the same trajectory. My parents do understand that things are going to be harder for later generations, but they were born before the welfare state was created. I'm not making generalisations about whole generations, though, just sharing my observations.

Welcome to neoliberal economics.

From WW2 until the 80's the top rate of income tax was pretty much always between 70-90%, even under Tory governments, and wealthy people accepted it and paid it. Now the wealthy shriek if it's 50%. So yeah, no money for pensions.

The "healthy life" expectancy is 64 so the average person will not be able of working much longer than that. I was concerned enough about the rise to 68 but if they raise it any higher there will be a significant health impact on the workplace

We have a top heavy population, if you want to know what the UK will be like for the next 30yrs look at Japan. My generation (36) is fucked economically until all the baby boomers die off.