AIBU to wonder how close Mums Netters are to the 'gender norm' ?

[Mellowautumn]

Do you conform to the western 'gender norm' for women? I can do maths, have short hair, never wear a dress and like cars. I am however a Mother and love make up and shopping. I am pretty average among my friends and just cannot connect with the idea that anything apart from my biological woman bits makes me a woman. How do you measure up and is their anything that makes you a woman apart from your biology ?

RudeElf I am actually getting the answers I was expecting and the coulutr one has no physical characteristic s that are actually shared as a starting point - so would have actually been a shit question.

Oh ffs

Are you conducting some kind of covert test with a theory you want to prove or suchlike?

Most women are to busy to wonder about gender construct or whether their gender is fixed this is a new buzz subject but it isnt a new thing women have always lived their lives how they want. i think a lot of this gender talk is self indulgent and a bit special snowflake

I am me. I do not give a toss about all this gender stuff

So from this thread it seems that posters here prefer to be individual- choose their own hair length, style of clothes, whether they like shopping/make up- in short choices are down to personality not sex organs.

So why do people continue to insist that it's "natural" for small girls to like pink, sparkles, and crafts, and boys mud, wheels and sports?

Why are gender stereotypes so enforced on children, when adults dont want or need to? Why does short hair on a female child mean they might be bullied, or be trans, or mistaken for a boy, yet perfectly acceptable on a femsle adult?

I presume the aim of this thread is linked to discussions on trans-people on here?
As in, how can transwomen feel like 'women' when women themselves dont know what it feels like to be a 'woman'?
Western societies are varied, and the role and norms for women vary hugely- compare Sweden with Portugal, Ireland with Denmark, France with UK, Poland with Spain etc.

BunnyTyler has it exactly...

I am me, the only thing that defines male or female / man or woman about me is my biological sex.

I'm sick of all this 'gender' crap.

Oh. It's yet another trans thread.

How I wish MN would give you a section where you can all bang on about what real women you are and how you haven't "drank the Kool-Aid" to your heart's content.

I really think most people don't give a shit as in general life I don't either but I really am interested and do wonder if some women do think their gender is inate? Not so much about trans really more about how we treat boys and girls.

Why does everything about gender gphavre to be related to trans ffs????

I brought up Dds in the 90s i never put them into gender sterotypes i let them grow and develop their own interests and they are now 2 different personality young women who wear jeans and dresses make up 1 not the other lots they like cars fluffy kittens and batman you cant pinpoint gender ime.

I don't wear make up.
I hate pink.
I take care of the household finances.
I take the bins out.
I am not practical around the house.
I don't cook.
I clean.
I live dresses.
I am better at language than maths.
I am very rational and unsentimental.
I am bad at gardening.
I love babies.
I prefer wine to beer.
I love coffee and cake.
I earn more than my OH.

So it's the nature/nurture question? Maybe it should have been worded:

If you have long hair, like wearing skirts, heels, make up, and that which is typically thought of as girly stuff (we all know what that is) then tell me if you believe it's because it's in your genes, or because it's how you were bought up, or neither and it's a co-incidence that you like all that and are a woman as well.

Yawn.
People fit a template or they don't. What does it actually matter how individuals view themselves? If gender doesn't matter can we just drop it now? Can't we all just get along, man?

Dawn - I love you.

I wish every mother was like you then MrsJayy I live in a city where all the girls look the same. They are definitely conforming to a type. I'm so glad I'm not a teenager now and that I have boys.

Dawn why the fuck do you think this is about trans ? Gender is something that affects everyone - genuine issues around stereotyping girls and boys not just about the gender choices of a small minority - your fucking presumption is why everything gender /feminism ends up about trans.

Mellow- then it might have been easier to put in your OP that you'd like a discussion about how we raise children, and how do girls know they're girls, how much girliness is nature, and how much the sparkly pink stuff is foisted upon them.
I'm sure I've read many, many past MN threads on these specific issues.
And I'd still welcome, and engage with another!

And no, i dont conform to 'gender norms' either in myself or child-rearing.
But mainly..

There was something on tv (cant remember what) and my 23yr old said if you bought me dolls and kitchens id have nothing to play with .tbf pirate I was raised in the 70s where girls were girls and it pissed me off i was teased for watching fantastic 4 cartoons and was told thats for boys when i wanted an evil kinevel toy for christmas