To be really disappointed and angry that NCT allow MLMs so much access to vulnerable new mums

[throwingpebbles]

Just that really. Was discussing with my mum about MLM's like Forever Living and how awful it is that they

• target new mums in particular and exploit their divided wishes to be with their children / need to earn money
• make completely unfounded claims about purported health benefits of the products

I then got on to explaining how these very companies are at nearly every NCT event; and worse still discussions on mumsnet and a Google search suggests many NCT committee members themselves are involved

In the words of my mum " thirty years ago the worst danger at an NCT coffee morning was being given a cup of tea with goats milk in it. Now you risk being sucked into an organisation that exploits women and encouraged them to make ridiculous claims about aloe"

It is just really disappointing. I thought NCT was there to advise and protect women?? Instead they are allowing ready access to MLMs that make it clear in their training that a key "target" for recruitment should be new mums! Plus they are encouraged to make far fetched claims about the health benefits of the products

Fittingly, after ranting away to my mum, I came home and found
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1699236280347393&id=1647635148840840&notif_t=like&ref=m_notif

Sorry to hear yet another awful story about FL exonerated

I bumped into one of the PTA mums from school this morning and asked her about the piece in the newsletter. I know I shouldn't be shocked by levels these people will stoop to, but I am.

Apparently there are two parents doing FL.

The school has a class for children with severe SEN.

One of the FL women has been approaching parents of children in this class and telling them that they can 'cure' their children with aloe.

Same woman is in the 'turf war' with the other FL parent, which has resulted in rumours about other FL parents marriage, fitness as a mother and mental health.

All this over some aloe vera shite which probably earns her fuck all.

From a brand point of view, I'm sure a lot of brands wouldn't be willing to go anywhere near FL. Shouldn't the NCT be protecting its brand too?

Where should the NCT stop? My local NCT mag is full of adverts for homeopaths, reiki therapists, spiritual guides and similar rip-off merchants, simply because they will pay to advertise and make the magazine possible.
I did suggest just updating the website occasionally and not bothering with a magazine, but that didn't go down well.

At least moisturiser and drinks exist...

That's interesting as I'd say that an advert from Reiki practitioner was much less damaging on the basis that they would be selling their services and not recruiting.

I'm dubious about the people saying the MLM business owners with stalls at NCT aren't recruiting. The recruiting has to follow or it's not worth if for them. They're under huge pressure to recruit and told by their uplines that new mums (not new parents) are their best hunting ground. So I would expect that a lot of follow up approaches are made.

Shocked by the approaches to the parents in the SEN class too. How awful.

I was told not to worry about having lots of stock in for table top sales as the free prize draw is far more important. Anything anyone wants you could then order it in for them.

So believe me its far more sinister with businesses like FL than with reiki, homeopathy etc

My view is that it's not that we must protect the delicate little minds of new mums and make their decisions for them, it's that the way certain mlm businesses work makes them so grossly unethical. From the way they train people to lie, (about medical claims, the money you can make), to the way they bully people once they are in, the way that they hide what they really are (some are mormon cults/churches) and that when you look into them properly, they aren't even 'businesses' as it's not really about selling product at all. It's a nasty game and you're probably going to lose. I wouldn't give many of them oxygen and I'd certainly not give them a platform within NCT.
If schools are having to write to parents to ask them to stop prospecting others in the playground, if people are getting approached in shopping malls, in their place of work etc, then I think it's getting a bit out of hand.
It's true they aren't all the same, but surely if you set up an mlm business you can still run it without doing anything at NCT events. Couldn't you?

probably going to lose

Yes, the churn rate is ridiculous, as is the amount of debt which people end up in.

That's better put than I could, thank you sminky and others!! I wasn't meaning to patronise new mums, or suggest they needed babying in any way.
It's just only too clear how aggressively exploitative FL is.
And their key targets are new mums/recently unemployed/ depressed (interestingly, the same applies to many cults....)

Giving them a platform within NCT lends them far too much legitimacy and also I guess reinforces the myth that their business is family friendly... The reality of course is that, once recruited, you are told to "get rid of your kids" if you want to make money
as shown here

YANBU.

NCT could lose their charitable status over this. They've been going for 60 years, and the current generation should be thoroughly ashamed of thenselves. They are misusing the NCT name and putting the organisation at risk.
www.centreforsocialenterprise.com/five-easy-ways-to-jeopardize-your-charity/

I was wondering that rita. It's been a while since I was a charity trustee (kids with health problems and a hectic job!) but I would think this was dangerously closing to breaching charity law /NCTs own charitable objectives

My mum was in NCT and as a child I remember them being instrumental in things like the nestle boycott. No way would they have got tangled up in a murky organisation that encourages distributors to make appalling medical claims and is also involved in peddling its pyramid scheme in places like Uganda Ffs
read this for more info

Jess that is shocking!

I was an active member of the NCT 20 plus years ago and at that time we were an organisation campaigning for better maternity services, breastfeeding support, and boycotting Nestle (who expolited new mums in the 3rd world ) and who would not have had time for exploitative MLMs like Forever Living, who deliberately target new mums to recruit, telling them lies about the...

"six figure money they will earn for 5-10 hours a week work from home so they can spend time with their little ones".

"the many, many unsubstantiated medical claims that Forever Living reps make to desperate people, who may listen to and go on to spend a lot of money on useless products".

I have had a look at the links posted further up the thread and they do not surprise me at all.

The NCT have dropped the ball imo, and need to be told that their good and respected name is being exploited by this organisation in particular (who distance themselves from the bad practice that their reps carry out, but who are ultimately responsible).

I am shocked and disappointed to read these links and you must understand that this MLM is not just selling aloe vera products, it is harvesting the names, addresses, emails, telephone numbers of the people who enter their "win a pamper pack" competition and you can be sure that those people will be courted and invited to other FL events with the hope that the rep will sign them up and get 2CCs (she has to get 4CCs every single month) plus spend £156 of her own money on products. Fact.

It's a very murky business once you scratch the surface and it has NO PLACE IN THE NCT. AT. ALL.

Oh, in addition, Forever Living target charities too, again adding legitimacy to their company .

Its the medical claims that are the main issue for me for them not being allowed at something like NCT, a lot of the other work-from-home things don't make such dangerous claims.

I'm a member of a private support group on FB for people recovering from/going through a certain serious illness and every week without fail, one of these Juice Plus/FL lie to join the group hen try and sell their shit with ludicrous health claims y first making out they had the same illness and now are cured . These people are already in a desperate and vunerable state and they try to exploit that for sales, I HATE them.

Exactly combine . Makes my blood boil. They prey on people with chronic illnesses too. I have family members with severe arthritis and they were convinced to spend a lot of money on the aloe gloop after being persuaded it would cure their arthritis by another family member (who is a nurse )

I'm unclear as to whether the issue at school is just flogging the aloe shite or if there is recruitment going on (which seems likely, that's where the money is).

Either way, a barely legal company which uses scare tactics and downright lies to manipulate anyone into parting with their money isn't something any charity or school should touch with a barge pole.

Oh god yes re chronic illness. I have fibromyalgia along with other things, and the amount of times Juice Plus and Forever Living get advertised, it's hideous.

I hadn't heard of them involved with NCT events before, that's disgusting.

I have a friend that is currently taking part in two MLM schemes. She got sucked in trying to boost her income, is now convinced the products are amazing. Last time I saw her she admitted she was close to bankruptcy, but is apparently blinkered to the connection. Sigh.

Digressing now but voldy I was pleased to see in the news the other day that they think they might have found the cause of Fibromyalgia!

We have a very active nct in the town. Not sure about the other events but we would never have this at our sales. I'm shocked that the nct would tolerate this.

That's not in the ethos of the NCT or never used to be. Seems to rub against the whole point of NCT - to help mums at their time of needing support

Next town along do have FL hassle people in the queues at sales but that's something we can't stop. They just turn up. I never realised there was a possibility they could be fellow NCT bods

That's interesting 2boys so it clearly varies a lot between different NCT groups, with some banning it and others actively promoting it...

I've been thinking about this thread and whether/why MLMs are different from other types of things that NCT could find itself associated with through members promoting it. I would have found it intimidating/off putting if the other managing members of the committee were all involved in this sort of activity and trying to recruit at NCT events for sure.

When I was involved with my local one, a local homeopathy provider was also presented as basically mainstream/friend to the branch which (as others have noted) could also be off putting if she had attended the events really regularly, rather than just buying an ad in the newsletter and advertising the baby groups/services.

Our group had 'mumtepreneurs' in it and I would be interested to know how many people they contacted were solely 'FB' and 'personal friends'. Breach of personal data - w/o saying much more - quite possible.

The thing about MLMs is the DEGREE to which their business model relies on recruiting others into it which causes the chaos. It's not like adding someone on Linkedin, it's I can't make my numbers w/o you!

I think the only solution for the NCT though is to say that NCT member data is for the exclusive use of the NCT activities and that events must be focused on the aims and objectives of the charity (no selling activity whatsoever), with commercial providers paying for access via newsletter ads or paying for a stand at events, like the fayres. I think that would soon put the MLMs off (or most of them).

Ime some at NCT have forgotten what the point of the charity is. I find the endless commercialisation of everything baby and maternity related by UKO quite sickening.

You're also not allowed to object to anything put out by UKO in a public way if you are a volunteer. I've seen some shocking behaviour towards some very good volunteers who, unsurprisingly, decided they'd had enough and left.

And that's the issue in a nutshell: unclear and ever changing "rules" from UKO that are poorly communicated and extremely poor volunteer management.

The membership is asked to vote every so often on key issues related to the charity's activity and at the moment there are too many things being pushed through by UKO which I and many others believe is not within their mandate and in some cases go against the charity's articles.

I've given up on it but I'd like to see things change for the better.