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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to think she was BU

49 replies

lalalalyra · 27/02/2016 22:38

This has been bugging me for a few days and wondered what you think.

I was with a relative when they received some very bad news. The initial diagnosis was done last week in terms of "We're 95% sure this is what it is and we need to do x, y and z to confirm it." The tests were done and I was with the relative when they received the confirmation.

The consultant who delivered the news introduced herself as Miss XXXX. She then confirmed to my relative that they had an illness that was terminal. My relative is only in her late 40s so this news has come completely as a shock to her. She asked several questions and on two occasions addressed the consultant as Dr. Now I know this is incorrect, but am I BU to be a bit pissed off that the consultant was really snippy about it? As in corrected her sharply, especially the second time. Even the nurse in the meeting looked a bit surprised.

I get that maybe it's annoying if people don't get your title right, but my relative couldn't even tell you what day it was at that point. She'd just been told she was dying and had thoughts of her parents, her husband etc running through her brain. She just wanted to know the answers to the questions 'Can I go home?' and 'How long have I got?'

The reason I'm thinking about it is that we've been asked to give feedback on her stay due to another issue (it took them 14 hours to organise her some insulin when hers ran out and we absolutely were not allowed to bring any from home and the nurses on the ward have asked us to complain loudly because they believe the lack of pharmacy staff is dangerous and they are not being listened too) and I don't know if it's something that should be mentioned. It was a very, very sharp "My name is Miss XXXX, not Dr XXXX." The nurse who was in the meeting very pointedly said when the complaint was mentioned "Please make sure you complain about everything that you are unhappy with... We complain about things and people a lot, but no-one listens to us" and I'm wondering how many other people the consultant has been rude too.

OP posts:

hesterton · 28/02/2016 07:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WhoTheFuckIsSimon · 28/02/2016 07:26

Well thats really odd because ex seriously every consultant I work with is Mr or Miss and they're not surgeons. Some I knew at Reg level and they were Dr and then once they get their consultant post I had to remember not to call them Dr anymore.

Is it because they're obs/gynae so do surgery?

Sorry, OP, don't mean to derail?!

OneWordTwoSyllables · 28/02/2016 07:32

Haha, yes Simon they are surgeons! Sorry to confuse you and as you said, derail!

charlestonchaplin · 28/02/2016 07:33

Obs and gynae is a surgical speciality.

WhoTheFuckIsSimon · 28/02/2016 07:35

God I'm dim. Ten years as a midwife and didn't know that!

scoobdoob · 28/02/2016 07:35

Medical doctors are Dr.....and surgeons are Mr/Miss.......

RubyRoseViolet · 28/02/2016 07:40

You absolutely MUST complain! That's so, so unkind and unnecessary. What sort of a person thinks that's an OK way to behave? I'm very sorry to hear about your relative's situation. I hope the rest of her care is compassionate and exemplary.

Headofthehive55 · 28/02/2016 07:41

Obs and gynae consultants are surgeons.

BathshebaDarkstone · 28/02/2016 07:46

Yes, complain, and also praise the nurses.

MagratsFlyawayHair · 28/02/2016 07:49

I was just coming to say what Bath has. Complain but also include your praise. I'm sorry for your bad news

Looobyloo · 28/02/2016 07:59

Please complain! The consultant was an absolute unprofessional bitch! I was told I may have cancer by a lovely consultant, your brain turns to mush & they need to understand this.

If no one complains she will never know the error of her ways (though she should bloody know!)

So very sorry for your relative

Peebles1 · 28/02/2016 08:14

I'm a nurse in a busy hospital, op, I would definitely definitely complain. That's absolutely disgraceful. I can't believe she thought it was important to point out her proper title at a time like that. Your poor relative. I feel so bad for her that she had to endure that on top of everything else.

All complaints are investigated and the person involved gets shown the complaint. It might make her think twice in the future. Who cares what her bloody title is?!!! Grrrrrrr! It makes me so angry! Some of the top consultants on our ward just introduce themselves by their first name. They're not on a power trip!

Sorry for you both going through this

SchnooSchnoo · 28/02/2016 09:10

YANBU. Despite the 'correct' title, a consultant is still a fucking doctor ffs. And even if that wasn't the case, it's just pathetic to correct a patient who you've just give a terminal diagnosis. Totally inappropriate. Definitely complain. And fwiw, I have been urged on several occasions by nurses to complain about things. Their opinions seem to get totally ignored.

thebiscuitindustry · 28/02/2016 09:13

YANBU

WiIdfire · 28/02/2016 09:21

I'm a surgeon so I'm a doctor who is a Miss. I couldn't care less what people call me, whether its 'doctor', 'miss', 'firstname' or 'love'. I do correct people when they call me 'nurse' because they need to know they are speaking to a doctor, (i always get called nurse despite introducing myself as a doctor, cos y'know, girls cant be surgeons...) but only if appropriate and always politely. There's no need to people to be rude, especially in such a difficult consultation.

ftmsoon · 28/02/2016 09:39

The pharmacy issue is a complete joke. It's been standard practice in all the hospitals I've worked in to ask patients to bring all their medication with them, and to ask relatives to bring in items we don't have in stock! Definitely complain!!
Ditto around the consultant and what she wants to be called. I have been called all sorts after breaking bad news and it's not important. She displayed a shocking bedside manner that needs explaining to her. Consultants are no longer considered 'god' and this sort of thing should be fedback.

herecomesthsun · 28/02/2016 09:45

Yes, this would be a surgeon. I am sure female surgeons will have been put down in all sorts of ways in their career, how dare a woman be more successful than a man, hello nurse, etc. and I suppose that is likely to make them emphasise their role a bit more.

It is useful to know exactly who you have been talking to. If you were to discuss your care with your GP, being able to say you spoke to "Miss X" might be really helpful from a point of view of understanding the decision-making, rather than an unnamed possible junior doctor or nurse. I know that when a patient has been able to tell me "I was talking to Ms X" I was then able to write to the consultant on question to discuss details of care, for example, in a way that was important for the patient's well-being.

Really though, you want to complain because the person introduced themself to you and suggested you use the correct title? Nuance is important but if the main concern was that the consultant mentioned their correct appellation a couple of times in the course of an extended discussion, that does not seem a huge issue in the overall scheme of things. I would have thought that all the other aspects of the conversation would weigh in quite a lot as well, the quality of the decision-making that was being made, the time to ask questions, the manner throughout the interview etc.

I have a colleague who is in the process of complaining, IIRC because the junior doctor DID NOT give their name in introduction in the advised manner.

Given the way we are going politically, we will have a very limited NHS in a few years time, and getting decent, publically funded healthcare may be a fond memory, however the doctors might have introduced themselves.

The business with the insulin sounds a lot more pertinent to a strong complaint to me, as it could seriously endanger health.

But clearly a lot of people here disagree.

RhiWrites · 28/02/2016 10:11

I have a name that people get wrong a lot. I also use a title that people frequently get wrong. I would not be correcting them (sharply or otherwise) while telling them they were going to die!

Original poster

lalalalyra · 28/02/2016 10:17

herecomesthesun I'm not complaining because she suggested someone use her correct title. I'm complaining because a few minutes after she told someone they were dying she scolded them like they were a naughty child for getting her title wrong.

To put it into complete context - my relative said, after a period of silence, "Dr X can I go home to my family? I don't want to stay in hospital." The consultant replied, "It's Miss X... You can after x, y and z." A few more questions were asked and then my relative said, "I just don't understand this Dr X, I thought I had -minor condition she was admitted for-, how long do I have?" and the response here was very sharp saying "My name is Miss XXXX, not Dr XXXX." which had my relative apologising profusely and I had to ask the question again.

There's a time and a place to ensure someone has your correct title, I get that, and I agree that the NHS is stretched and the consultant is very busy, and that is why I hesitated about complaining, but my relative is dying and she got told off like a naughty child for making a very simple mistake.

I'm all for females making sure that their successes are not downgraded by casual sexism, but in this case the female in question could have done with a bit of compassion for the woman sat across the table for her.

ftmsoon The pharmacy in the hospital was a joke. When she was first admitted she was allowed to use the remainder of her insulin pen, but after that it had to be prescribed by the doctor and come from the hospital pharmacy. Even though she had that weeks insulin at home as she'd collected her prescription just before going in. It seemed like a bit of a waste - although I can understand them saying they need to ensure they know exactly what patients are taking. From what the nurses say the pharmacy is ridiculously understaffed and it takes and age for anything to come up. It certainly wasn't just my relative who waited for meds.

We have decided to complain. The fact the nurse asked us to do so makes me think that perhaps my relative isn't the first person to have this treatment. We're praising a lot of the good things too, in particular one junior doctor and the nursing staff who were excellent.

OP posts:

Bogburglar99 · 28/02/2016 10:27

What Simon points up is that even for those of us who work in the NHS and haven't just been told they are terminally ill, knowing whether a consultant is Dr or Miss is quite tricky. The distinction is indeed between medical doctors and surgeons, but a heck of a lot of specialties (eg obs and gynae) fall into a grey area in the middle, and you just have to know the convention.

All of that is totally irrelevant to your relatives situation. I have no idea what I called the lovely doctor who treated us at a traumatic time, and I don't think she would have cared. It's called being sensitive to your patients needs and not obsessed with your own ego.

Definitely complain and you might want to mention the Hellomynameis campaign ... see if the Trust is signed up

Bogburglar99 · 28/02/2016 11:34

Link to website:

hellomynameis.org.uk

Useful quote for complaint letter:

'Introductions are about making a human connection between one human being who is suffering and vulnerable, and another human being who wishes to help. They begin therapeutic relationships and can instantly build trust in difficult circumstances.'

Anything there about standing on your dignity over historically anachronistic titles? Thought not.

Best to you and your relative.

Headofthehive55 · 28/02/2016 22:06

Ive been around hospitals so much in the last fifteen years or so and I agree this deserves some complaint.

To correct someone, at that vulnerable time is unkind and unnecessary. It does not really matter in the grand scheme of things, that the patient gets the correct title. The person is representing the hospital and at that point is a member of the healthcare team, deemed the one responsible to deliver the news.

Having been on the wrong side of bad news several times I can assure you there is no possible way being corrected either from nurse to Dr or DR to miss, is appropriate at that time. I had no need to know the qualifications of who was telling me, just that they were kind and caring.

Otherwise it just comes across as arrogant.

Original poster

lalalalyra · 02/03/2016 22:26

Thanks for that link Bob.

Headof It was very unnecessary to correct her given that they had been speaking every day. My relative knew who she was, she just had a mangled brain after that kind of news.

A little update, but not much. They've already been in touch to clarify the pharmacy issue with my relative. They've said the complaint about the consultant will go through a standard procedure, but the pharmacy issue was an urgent thing that they're looking into. They shouldn't have people waiting all that time for things like insulin. My relative also spoke to her MP in passing as they have contact through a group they both attend and he's also going to speak to someone about it as the wait was unacceptable and he's horrified that it seems quite standard.

OP posts:

theycallmemellojello · 02/03/2016 22:39

I would have thought she didn't want to have your relative think that she had qualifications that she didn't in fact have - is wanted to be clear she's a surgeon not a physician. She could have explained it better, but its a good sign she thinks it's important that this is made clear. Sorry about the bad news.

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