To wonder why we still shut all the shops at5.30?

[Lanark2]

I work all week, often sleep in at the weekend, and get my shopping mojo at about 5 on a Saturday, but then all the shops shut..why? I have so many clothes and home items from supermarkets as a result.

How have we resisted a continental pattern, when we have the darkest evenings??

97% my arse. I know literally no-one who works 9-5 M-F. Nobody at all.

Our shopping mall used to stay open until 8/9pm but it was a ghost town 10 months of the year. We would have 2/3 staff from 7-9 and barely see a customer. Even the sainsburys and m&s brought forward closing to 7/8pm. A store can't stay open paying staff when there aren't the takings to cover it.

But online shopping is better value for retailers. They have to pay pickers anyway (and where I am, pickers generally work 5am-midday, regardless of what time your delivery slot is), so they're getting more business for the same amount of money.

How many people, realistically, are going to come shopping at 10pm and do a full trolley shop on a regular basis? Because the odd few people who pop in after work for bread/milk at that time aren't worth staying open for. The amount they have to pay staff (management, security, checkout operators plus stackers at a minimum) far outweighs the amount they make.

And it's pretty hard to keep evening staff. Nobody wants evenings where I work. They're generally boring (few customers, so not much to do), go slowly and often end in people being sent home early at any opportunity because the store isn't making enough money!

Keeping a store open late is not as easy as employing a couple of checkout assistants and that's it. There needs to be management there, security and shop floor staff, plus cleaners as a general rule (in big chains, that is). That's a lot of wages to pay/hour for not very much return.

Ok, but here's one, why when 97% of the population are employed between 9 and 5/and unable to shop, are those the main hours shops are open?

I've just looked it up and done some maths, rather than just guessing at stuff.
The population of the UK is 64.1 million.
Of that 38 million are between 16 and 64 and therefore count as the 'work force'. Of them 2.34 million are unemployed. That leaves 30.15 million people in paid work no counting for people who don't count as not currently working because they are disabled, on maternity leave, long term sick etc.

Out of that 30.15 million people 3.5 million are shift workers. That doesn't include people who work 5 days out of 7, retail workers for example.

So that takes the 9 - 5 Monday to Friday working population of the country to 26.65 million people.

That means that 41% of the country work 9 - 5 Monday to Friday.
Not even half.

TLDR? 41% work office hours, not 97%

When we first came to Oz the shops were open normal hours M-F and until 1200 Saturday only. Eventually we got a 0830/0900-1700 Sat then late shopping Thurs 0830/0900-2100.

Now we have M-F 0830/0900-2100, Sat 0830-0900-1700 and Sunday 1100-1700. Some of the smaller niche shops will remain shut on the extra hours except the old Thursday.

We do have some smaller inderpent shops that open at 0700 plus not a Spudshed that is 24/7.

*independent not inderpent

There are plenty of people who are neither "shift workers" or 9-5'ers, so I'd say its a lot less than 41%.

I remember being sent to a seaside town on the Kent Coast on a placement from a London university in the mid nineties. I couldn't get my head around the shops closing at 5pm. I love London where you can go shopping after finishing work at 6/7 or even 8 or 9 sometimes. Where are you OP ? I know the shops in Brighton also stay open till 6 or 7.

There are plenty of people who are neither "shift workers" or 9-5'ers, so I'd say its a lot less than 41%.

Like I said this doesn't account for people who work 5 days out of 7 so will have a day off in the week, work flexitime, work part time, work in jobs like pubs or restaurants where they are not classed as 'shift workers' but don't do 9-5 etc.

Nothing like the 97% that the OP claims though.

I think, as pip and ziggy do, that its a hell of a lot less than 41%

I dont think our shop makes much money at all after about 6pm. No one comes in, And then someone comes in to browse 5 minutes before we shut

I'd be happy for them to abolish Sunday trading hours but add on a couple of hours later in the evening on, say, Monday and Friday. However, I'd be happy for the shops to shut for 4 or 5 days over Christmas, too, though the queues to get into Asda's car park on Boxing Day suggest other people feel otherwise.

Our local shopping centre (was a Westfield, now Intu or something) is open until 9pm in the run up to Christmas and I must admit it was nice to go for a leisurely mooch while kids were in bed. I even had a coffee!

I do wonder how much custom shops actually get on, for example, a Wednesday at 11am or a Tuesday mid-afternoon, but I guess part of it is that they're staffed any way to accept deliveries and things so might as well open.

Yes currant, shops are businesses and a lot of the work of running a shop needs to be done in normal business hours.

What is it that everyone so desperately needs?
Most large food shops are open late.
DIY stores are open late.
Toys R Us are open late.
Off Licences are open late.
John Lewis is open late.

Other than clothes I don't understand what people are so desperate for that it can't be bought on one of the two days off that most working people have.

Except a lot of time longer openings do not mean more staff, simply exsisting staff have to change their hours to fit in with the business.
Having to work till 10pm made no sense to me as i would use up some of my wages for that day having to get a taxi home.

Later shopping has no impact on Saturday footfall in my shopping centre. The centre has moved the close time to 7 in the evenings because people just don't shop that late. Not enough to make financial sense anyway.

I'd be happy for them to abolish Sunday trading hours but add on a couple of hours later in the evening on, say, Monday and Friday. However, I'd be happy for the shops to shut for 4 or 5 days over Christmas, too, though the queues to get into Asda's car park on Boxing Day suggest other people feel otherwise.

I'd be happy for the law to get out of the business of fixing shop hours once and for all.

When shops routinely open late they spread the staff more thinly and expect them to take their turn on the late shift. It's how it works already. Not enough money comes in after peak hours to do it any other way.

If shops all had to stay open late there wouldn't be any happy band of late night workers all reveling in their handy newly available evening jobs. Where the hell would the money to pay them come from?

Not everyone lives in a major city.
Large parts of the UK have no public transport after 6pm.
Not everyone drives.

If all shops routinely stayed open later than 6 round here the people working in them who don't drive would be buggered when it came to getting home.

Exactly Eponas. I used to work in a store in Brighton where one night a week we would open late. There weren't special staff drafted in eager for the work it was just regular staff on a rota. You would start in the afternoon and finish about 9. Complete pain in the arse. Starting later like that robbed you of your entire day as there was little you could get done in the mornings. Then you had to eat at work, so ate crap rather than a decent meal as it needed to be microwaveable. Come 9.30 by the time you've cashed up etc (remembering that you only get paid until 9) the busses have stopped running so it's a taxi or walk.
What was so annoying was that no bugger ever came in. We used to take fuck all money after about 6pm. We had to open though as the centre would fine you if you didn't.

Sunday trading has nothing to do with evening opening. Shops don't have to open on a Sunday. Shops can stay open late the rest of the week.

If I could go to the dentist, hairdresser, optician etc in the evening I would be ecstatic.

I would actually go then, rather than have those things constantly on my to do list never getting ticked off.

Seph - our dentists and options and doctors are all open until 8pm. Hairdressers until 9pm. They are always full when we go at 7pm onwards. We would never go otherwise as work in the day

I'd suggest you learn to get out of bed earlier then, rather than wanting to go shopping at 5pm. You know, when retail and other tourist/customer services staff need to go home and live their family lives.

Lucky you Lanark for working monday-friday 9-5 and 'making britain great'. Not all of us have the luxury of weekends off, regular working patterns or even high wages and yet we still manage to deal with shops closing at normal times.

I would have loved both a) being able to work evenings as a teenager/student - fits great around studying and b) being able to go into town after 5pm and it not being completely dead!

It makes no sense to have shops and banks only open during the hours that most normal working people can't actually go shopping. No wonder online shopping is killing the high street!

snozz not all shops take on students to do these late nights!
A lot just spread their staff even thinner!
Hardly anybody even goes in really late night anyway ( not enough to justify it staying open).
Not everybody has the luxury of working 9-5.

I too would like it too go back to stores being closed xmas and boxing day.
The taxi fare there and back was more than my bloody shift!!
Plus it generally fell on the people who didn't have kids, no matter that i wanted to spend the day with my quite recently widowed mother

Shops are open long enough as it is. If you can't drag yourself out of bed any earlier then that's your lookout.