to wonder why nursery's charge for bank holidays

[captaincake]

Just wondering really because it comes up a fair bit at the toddler groups etc. I do understand that they still have their costs but around here every nursery you contact tries to get you to sign up for a Monday and Friday. Sometimes they will say if you start on a Monday and Friday then they will change the days after a period of time. This is because everyone flatly refuses those, especially Mondays, because they don't want to have to pay when they're shut all the time. So many times I've heard oh yes we looked around there but i'm not sending him/her because they only had monday/friday. I wonder if they didn't charge when they were shut, or opened, that so many more people would take those days that they would cover the bank holidays anyway. I left work now but when I was I couldn't do a monday because I still had to work bank holidays, so if I did that every bank holiday I would have to unsettle DC with different childcare that I probably wouldn't be able to find anyway, and pay twice when I wouldn't have been getting paid any extra.

I never paid for bank holidays or the two weeks at Xmas when nursery was closed. Why on earth would I pay for a service that was not being provided?

because their staff get paid for BH's

Because UK employees are entitled to 20 days holiday plus 8 bank holidays as a statutory minimum - ie they are paying their staff holiday pay those days.

My nursery does not charge for bank holidays or other days they are closed for training etc. This was a factor in choosing the nursery - we have 2dc there do it really adds up.

I can see why you didn't want to opt for Mondays if you work bank holidays though.

To pay their staff as they are legal required to do, it's either pay the bank holidays or accept a hike in cost the rest of the year

I did write that I understand the staff costs but wondered with the rest of effects would mean if not charging would cover the costs.

The staff at the nursery the dc goes to has decent conditions for staff as it's part of the university. As well as holiday they have a few extra closure days a year and 5 training days when the nursery it closed so staff do it at the same time. I think that's why so few staff leave - the conditions seem good and they are happy.

Surely the main reason they struggle to fill Mondays and Fridays is that for people working 3 or 4 day weeks, there's a high chance they have one if not both of those off?

Ie four day week of mon-thu or tue-fri, three day week of mon-wed, wed-fri, tue-thu or mon/tue/thu...?

But the parent is not employing the nursery staff. They are paying for a service at an hourly or daily rate.

Where I work we contract an outside company to clean the office, we are invoiced per visit. If they don't visit because they are "closed" on a bank holiday they don't invoice us. They still have to pay their staff holiday pay.

It would be different if the nursery was actually open on the bank holiday but a parent chose for their child not to attend.

I've never used a nursery, but I think it's crazy.

The cost to the nursery of paying staff for bank holidays should be included in their general daily rate charge, like any other fixed cost.

Suppose they had a bill to be paid on the last Friday of every month. No one would stand for that to be only paid for by Friday users!

Only four bank holidays per year are guaranteed to be on a Monday and one on a Friday, as Christmas and New Year's Day vary.

Nurseries here charge for bank holidays and whilst I understand they still have to pay staff and the overheads for the building etc., it doesn't add up to the daily charge of £74 per day or £66.79 if full time that we are charged here. The nursery doesn't provide food or nappies etc on bank holidays, and money isn't spent on materials like paint etc that is used for playtime.

We've never payed for bank holidays at our kids' nursery. With kids not in full time, and bhs always on a Monday, it would mean only those parents who sent their child in on a Monday constantly paying for a session that wasn't being provided. IMO nurseries should account for the staff pay issue in the hourly rate. After all, staff get 20 paid holiday days, and you don't presumably have to pay for those directly - that would mean an entire month of nursery when you aren't using it!

All nurseries round here are open on bank hols except the Xmas and NY ones.

Our nursery only closes for BH at Xmas.

They could not charge for bank holidays and charge a bit more for every other day instead if you'd rather.... They have to cover their costs.

If you like your nursery, surely you want it to be a profitable ongoing venture?

Yes I think not charging a few parents for not providing a service and charging very slightly more the rest of the time to account for the fixed cost would be fairer and make more sense. Yes of course they should be a profitable ongoing venture the question is about the way in which the expense is split. Interesting to hear that others either don't charge or open and yes I think it makes sense to say that a bill that's always due on a Friday isn't paid by Friday parents only. I also wonder if they would make more money if they didn't charge as more parents would put their children in and also would it be better for the nursery to not be packed on a tues/wed/thurs and empty on a Monday (the nursery my DS used to go to there was 1 child on a Monday)?

They should definitely factor in the cost of bank holiday pay into their average running costs and split it between the days they are actually open. My baby goes to nursery on Mondays and I don't pay for bank holidays.

The private nursery I worked in only closed for 4 days over the Christmas/New year period. We charged for BH because we were open.

The majority of their expenses will be salaries and rent, not nappies and food. A bank holiday day will cost them nearly as much as an average day.

It probably is more sensible to spread the cost across all the days though. Let's do the maths...

Nursery open 52 weeks per year, 5 days per week except for 8 bank holidays, 3 of which are fixed on Mondays, one fixed on a Friday.

Let's say the other 4 fall one each on a tue/wed/thu/fri, though happy for others to try different assumptions and see what happens.

Nursery needs to make £50 per day per child every day ie £13k per year (52x5x£50). To compensate for the 8 bank holidays, fees go up to £51.59 a day (£13k/(260-8))

So someone using the nursery tue-thu now pays 52x3x51.59 a year, less 3x51.59 for the three bank holidays on their days. That's £7,893.27 per year.

And someone using it mon-wed now pays 52x3x51.59 less 5x51.59 - that's £7790.09

Before the mon-wed and the tue- thu person were both paying 52x3x50 ie £7,800.

So hurrah for the £10 saved!

If my sums are wrong, mea culpa...

But the only days available are monday and Friday, it doesn't answer if it might be better all round getting more children in on a Monday. Might make no difference but it seems silly to me to have everyone fighting over tues-thurs and being really busy then being empty on a monday. Also the cost of having to pay double for childcare on b/h.

I don't mean to disagree with you your sums are useful shows it's not as annoying as I thought.

Captain

Like I said upthread, I think lots of nurseries are less busy on Mondays and Fridays because of the typical patterns of part time work. A discount on those days might be a better incentive!

Also lots of people don't work bank holidays so wouldn't have to pay double.

I'd rather have my tenner than be charged for four days a year when the service was not being provided.

Bank holiday pay for staff is something for management to work out and factor into the cost of the service.

To charge Monday users for all the holidays falling on a Monday shows a level of greed, incompetence, and innumeracy that I would find unacceptable in a childcare provider.

Greed?

Not really, as the difference is so small; they may just have found it easier to work out. If it's an independent nursery, the person doing the billing may well be part time, spending most of her time covering staffholidays and sickness.

It's the same as some childminders charging for their holidays and some not - you read the terms if the contract and if it doesn't suit you, you go elsewhere.

If I had to work bank holidays, I would look hard for a nursery open bank holidays as that would suit me.