To ask you to explain why someone would renounce citizenship of a country?

[InTheBox]

This is more out of curiosity than anything in particular. I'm under the impression that it's possible to hold citizenship for more than one country, so what would be the point in renouncing one's citizenship if it didn't really make a difference iyswim?

US Citizenship: It is now financially punitive to give up US citizenship... the US have made it really hard (it wasn't a decade ago: it was a matter of getting US taxes in orders and then renouncing).

Not all children born to US citizens are US themselves US citizens. For e.g. an expat US citizen who has not lived in the US for longer than ten months is not entitled to pass US citizenship to their child (assuming they are the only parent who is a US citizen).

Noorfly: was it easy for you to renounce (costly?). Was it recently?

I can have Irish citizenship if I want as my parents are both Irish but I've never seen the need to apply.

Apparently the tax rules for US citizens are causing non-US banks to refuse to give accounts to US citizens (I assume there is a lot of red tape or potential fines). Not having a bank account makes life very hard, so people are having to renounce their US citizenship.

It costs a few £k to renounce US citizenship, but it can be expensive to get tax filings done for the US from overseas, so it can also be a cost saving to renounce citizenship.

Off the top of my head: some countries don't allow it. Japan I believe doesn't after 18. Also India.
The nationality of the child would depend on the nationality of the parents at birth as well as the laws of the country in question.

In countries with military service, some people give up citizenship to avoid it. Korean men have to spend two years in the army - some want to avoid because they're gay/don't fit in and are worried their life will be made a misery. Others just resent what they see as a waste of two years of their life.

There have been reports of men being tortured to death and bullied to the point of suicide in the military, so many men fear it.

My BIL's wife is Japanese. She still has her citizenship but has permanent residency in Australia. Their DC's have dual citizenship but will have to pick one when they are 18.

I have dual Australian and UK citizenship (UK via descent). I'm eligible for an Irish passport too which I'm considering (partially for shit and giggles) if DH and I move there as it's easier for him to work (Surindah Singh possibly).

The tax issue is mainly for Americans as they are one of very few nations that taxes non-resident citizens on worldwide income rather than domestic income

e.g. If a Brit and an American both move to Dubai, which has no income tax, and all their income is generated in Dubai, the Brit doesn't have to pay any tax at all, whereas the American has to pay US tax to the US Inland revenue on his Dubai income.

So my friend is American by descent (both parents are American, dad also has French citizenship so she has dual American-French). Was born in Spain and had never lived in the US other than for 1 year when she was 10. Moved to Asia when she was 22, met her British husband and has lived in HK ever since. Never intends to live in the US, but is still liable for US tax and spends $$$ just filing as it's so damn complicated. She's just renounced her US citizenship.

I think most people who renounce have very loose ties to the country they renounce from.

I am a naturalised American citizen. I did it for my kids. I will renounce it for tax reasons in the future.

My Chinese colleague would have to give up his citizenship if he chose to take up Australian citizenship, which would mean giving up his rights to move back there. And a German colleague told me that German people can't have dual citizenship. My son has triple citizenship ( Oz, UK and Irish) as will I next year. 😀 You never know when it might come in handy! 😀

Glasto passport twin! My ex nanny charges all had dual German and USA citizenship. No issue at all.

Grin that is weird. My German colleague definitely told me that they had to pick German citizenship for their baby ( his wife was English and the baby was born in Oz).

What happens if both parents have dual nationality?

It depends on the 4 countries involved - technically if all countries allow multiple citizenship then the children could have 4 citizenships. Apparently if a country allows multiple citizenships then they cannot restrict the number of citizenships that you can have but I did not know this until last night and am quite excited - thanks for starting this thread.

I had not realised that we could obtain a 3rd passport for our DC until sofiaames said her DC had 3.

I just checked and since DH and I both have dual citizenship and none of our 3 countries restricts to single citizenship then we can apply for our DC to have his second nationality and have 3 citizenships! Why did I never even ask, I just assumed this would not be possible
And that they could only have dual citizenship. Thanks, Sofia.

Also re capital gains in US, UK, - I have dual citizenship and have realised capital gains on sales in both the US and the UK and yes, you pay capital gains tax to both countries but reclaim from one so only end up paying tax in one country.

Germany issue:

Germans cannot elect to add another citizenship without permission from the German government without losing their German citizenship by default. This permission will be granted if an applicant can demonstrate they would suffer hardship if the second, elective citizenship was denied (or I think, if the German citizenship were revoked). There are many situations where this might apply, variable according to the second country. The application process takes up to 9 months and forms and advice are available from your local consulate.

If the German citizenship is acquired by birth (not electively) there are no issues whatsoever and no requirement to drop it at any age.

My son is a treble citizen including German, acquired through birth.

Some states require you to do things like national service if you want to remain a citizen, I don't know if it still does but France did, friend of my parents was French, his son had lived all his life in the UK but at 18 he had to do national service in France to keep his passport.

Most of the Argentine force who invaded the Falklands were doing their countries national service.

coalfire I found it very easy (other than back filing my taxes which was a pain!!). I renounced before the recent hike. I think I paid $400 odd? I went along to the US Consulate in Edinburgh where I had a pleasant chat with the Consul General who sympathised with my situation and sent off the paperwork. A few months later I received my official document which I'm supposed to take to the US when I go on holiday there.

It will be two years ago in May since I renounced.

A question for those with dual nationality.
Do you have two passports one for each nationally and do you take both of them with you all the time or do you vary depending on the country you are visiting.

For example - if you were uk and Australia then would you travel to Australia just on the Australian passport?
Could you take both so it would be quicker on the return to the uk?

My UK born children have dual US/UK citizenship. They enter the US on their US passports (legally required) and then return on their UK ones. When I had my US passport we all got to go through the US citizens immigration line which saved time but I suspect going forward they'll make us go through the Alien line.

For other countries, they only take their UK passports, although DS is on his way back (right now!) from a visit to his American grandfather in Panama. He brought a photocopy of his US passport just in case as if anything happened, his grandfather would have been more comfortable dealing with the US embassy. He didn't take the original as we are off to NYC in April and if he'd lost it, it's a pain to replace!

• Not all countries allow dual nationality.

• Having citizenship comes with obligations. I know some Americans thinking of renouncing citizenship because they have no intention of ever living there again but have to follow really difficult tax laws as citizens (they are not tax avoiding but several banks in Italy have shut down US members' accounts due to the bureaucratic hurdles that involve keeping them open).

• some people don't want to do military service and their citizenship means they are eligible in a country they don't live in.

We always travel with both valid passports for each family member. I doubt it's entirely necessary but we were given a right bollocking by a UK customs person once for not travelling with all valid passports.

When I travel I carry both. I leave and enter on Australia my Australian passport. I can enter some countries on one passport but another (Egyptian stamps in one, Isreali in another etc). Some countries have free or cheaper visas for some nationalities.

Madame as the others have said, if your son is eligible for US citizenship then he is a US citizen, regardless of whether you've registered his birth at the consulate. If he was born abroad he isn't automatically eligible though, even with a US parent so you'd need to check out the rules.

Inthe box I don't think we've answered your question Would the renunciation of citizenship preclude future or already existing dcs from attaining that citizenship ?

I think that would entirely depend on the naturisation/citizenship rules for the countries involved but generally the dc of a person who has denounced citizenship of country A would have no more or less right than any other non-citizen of that country to gain citizenship.

e.g. In our case ds renounced his citizenship of 'Nolandia' and retained his British citizenship. If he has dcs they have no more connection with Nolandia than any other (non Nolandia) British child and would need an immigration visa to travel, live or work there. They would have no legal connection to the country even though they might have a Nolandian surname and family culture. If one day his dc married a Nolandian then they might be able to gain Nolandian citizenship according to the rules of Nolandia at the time, just like any other non Nolandian might gain citizenship.