To think that HR don't need to know the details of my sickness!!

[UnGoogleable]

I'm currently waiting for surgery on my severe endometriosis and large ovarian cyst. I had surgery last year, I've had scans, I'm having a camera up the bum - the lot.

So it involves quite a few hospital appointments, as well as a few days off sick when my period is too painful or I'm bleeding too heavily. My line manager and colleagues all know what's going on and everyone has been brilliant.

But we have a new sickness recording system, which requires my manager to fill in the reason for sickness. In the past, we just filled in a form, and you could write what you wanted on there. Now, the new system has pre set categories and you have to pick one from a drop down list.

The categories cover a range of problems, so in the category which my sickness falls under, there is also stuff like 'Cystitis, Period problems, fertility problems, gynaecological etc'. But when listing past absences it abbreviates it so that only the first few ailments in the category are visible.

Consequently, my absence record looks like this:

UnGoogleable sick days:

day 1 "Cystitis...."
Day 2 "Cystitis...."
Day 3 "Cystitis...."
Day 3,4,5 "Cystitis...."
Day 6 "Cystitis...."
Day 7-28 "Cystitis..."

The problem is, this system also services our finance system, so the finance team also have access to it. As it's a new system we have had a lot of teething problems so there is a dedicated helpline with a team to help you through it - that team obviously also have full access to the system.

I told my line manager that while I'm fine for her to know what's going on, I'm not entirely comfortable with the entire HR and finance team to have full access to it, plus the way it's displayed makes it look like I have frequent days off for cystitis!

Line manager agreed, and said she would just record my sickness without a reason next to it from now on. We said that I wasn't comfortable with all the finance staff etc being able to access it and I was told that they're all bound by the same HR confidentiality rules so it's OK. But that doesn't stop me feeling uncomfortable with them all being able to see it! For example, I recently had to use the helpdesk to sort out a finance issue on the system with me. She was able to access my files and I had to sit there when she opened the above mentioned sick leave record in front of me

Then today, I've had an email from someone in Payroll demanding to know the reason for my recent sickness. I find this a huge invasion of privacy and was tempted to give him the full details of my upcoming extensive gynaecological surgery for good measure!

Surely if I've told my LM the reason, and she's OKd it, then why does anyone else need to know the details? And

There's a deeper issue to this - once I'm done with my surgery, I'm likely to be referred for IVF. I haven't discussed this with work yet, but it will be very private and I really don't feel comfortable with that being plastered all over our system for all to see.

Can I refuse this? Is this a breach of my right to privacy?

Thanks Sue but I don't have cystitis! It's just the system that thinks I do!

But I agree, it is awful!!!!!

I run payroll for my large company and there is never a reason or a necessity to ask any employees what they are actually off work sick with. Longer than self certified periods of sickness the doctors sick note gives brief detail of why someone is off, and even then all the payroll systems I've ever used don't require that information to calculate sick pay, only the dates taken off sick.

Hope you feel better soon.

Payroll have just come back to me and accepted my answer of "it was related to my hospital appointment".

So I asked them whether this was going to be an issue with the system every time I go off sick and my LM records it without the details of the sickness. And I questioned why Payroll needed to know given that I thought it was only HR who needed to know this level of personal info.

Then I asked him to please let me know whether the system was going to kick out every absence recorded with 'no reason' against them for privacy reasons, because if it won't allow us to do that then I'll have to take it up with HR.

I work in HR systems (not the one you have) - as others have said, speading this data all over the place is a DPA breach (aside from being highly unprofessional).

I understand that in France and some other countries, you don't even tell your line manager because all sick absences are certified by a doctor.

As a potentially humourous aside , in a previous job I worked on a system that had "acne" listed as a reason for sickness absence - as a former sufferer who's never taken a day off for that I was somewhat bemused.

As an aside, sick leave isn't supposed to be used for hospital appointments.

YADNBU. This sounds like a massive invasion of medical privacy. I hate those forms, and they should be kept private. Surely there is legislation protecting our right to medical privacy in this country?!

Payroll and finance do not need to know; HR just needs to tell them what to pay you.

Payroll/finance only need to know that you were off sick. They don't need to know why.

Your manager has okay'd it, that is all they need to know.

I'd be kicking up a stink about this. A big one.

Sick leave can be used for hospital/medical appointments, if that's what's been arranged with the employer. Unfortunately, there's no general legal requirement for your employer to give you time off for medical appointments (am leaving aside pregnancy issues etc for now) so it's up to the employer how they want their employees to do this: some make them take annual leave, or take the time unpaid, or make up the time later, or take them off as sick leave, or - if they're particularly unflexible - they can make their employees take them outside of work altogether.

But yes.. your finance dept are DBU!!!

Payroll do not need to know. It's confidential.

I would consider making a formal complaint.

Good luck with your ivf. x

YANBU massive breach of personal data protection. I'll try and find some links, but I'd be verging on lodging a formal complaint.

sick leave isn't supposed to be used for hospital appointments Yeah I just figured out, thanks to someone else pointing that out, that I was sick the day before my hospital appointment and that my actual hospital appointment day off was already covered. Good job i started this thread really, because I wouldnt have thought about it otherwise.

I've had a response from the payroll guy. He said that he is in HR (as well as a payroll team member) and that it's only him that deals with absences. He said they don't need to know specific details about the sick absence, and that a range of issues are coded under generic titles like 'digestive problem' for example.

But I knew all that. It still doesn't stop my endo related issues being coded as Cystitis, and it still doesn't address the fact that I shouldn't have to record it for all to see.

I have asked for clarification on who exactly can see these records, and what to do if something is of a highly personal nature. I have suggested they amend the system to include a 'Personal' category to be used at the LM discretion.

I now feel like I'm creating a fuss over a small issue - but I really want this sorted out before I start having fertility treatment because I will freak out if I see that plastered all over my record.

I'd actually bypass HR. If you work in local govt you must have someone who is responsible for data protection for the whole staff - it's a named person (my DH is the person for his organisation) who is basically the person who would be held to account for any breaches. And this is a breach.

I'd be going straight to them - they'll probably live in finance or IT. Don't assume they know what's going on - my DH didn't when payroll asked for everyone to email in a note of the passwords they used to access their payslips online

Thorough article here: ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/conditions-for-processing/

Health information is classed as sensitive personal data and therefore more regulations. If you look at the article above one example they give is regarding consent -
*
An employer processes personal data about its employees on the basis that it is necessary to do so in connection with their individual contracts of employment and to comply with the employer’s legal obligations. However, the employer decides to outsource its HR functions to an overseas company and transfers its employees’ data to that company. It is not “necessary” to transfer the data overseas for these purposes, and the employer would instead have to rely on consent, or on the legitimate interests condition, to be able to process its employees’ personal data in this way.*

Easy to compare to transferring data to payroll - not necessary, therefore data protection breach.

YANBU at all!

I had surgery last year, and was off for two weeks, and my reason for absence: "surgery."

I wasn't asked for details at all, but me being me, I blabbed to everyone about it afterwards because I had some interesting experiences afterwards. (I woke up from anesthesia speaking a language I had not spoken in nearly 30 years.)

YANBU.

Then today, I've had an email from someone in Payroll demanding to know the reason for my recent sickness

I'd have told him he could stick his request in the same place that they stuck your camera.

I think there should be a none of your fucking business 'personal' category for reason for sickness. Or at least the existing one should just say 'Gynaecological' rather than going into detailed sub-categories.

If you work in local government, I'm guessing it's one Oracle? I don't think I've ever known a more inappropriately name system.

payroll asked for everyone to email in a note of the passwords they used to access their payslips online

I'll wait for Mr Payroll to get back to me on my question of who, exactly, can see the 'reason for sickness' info on the system. Then I'll chat to my LM about taking this to our data protection person.

I'm tempted to give Mr Payroll both barrells. He said "we don't need to know specific details, so if it was anything ranging from vomiting, dental issues, gastritis etc you record it as 'DIGESTIVE PROBLEM'".

Yes, I know that. So the category my problem sits under is apparently listed as: "Infective, inflammatory conditions such as cystitis, mastitis, pladder dysfunction, infertility problems, kidney infections, prostate problems" . I'm not happy about them knowing (or demanding to know) that I have any of those problems. Why the fuck should they?:

But like I said, then it's abbreviated on the system, all you see is:

"Infective, inflammatory conditions such as cystitis," listed over and over for each of my absences.

Not happy about that at all.

No offence against chronic cystitis sufferers. In fact, my heart goes out to you!

You don't need to go both barrels - keep letting them incriminate themselves on email.

Thanks for the link Minty

I woke up from anesthesia speaking a language I had not spoken in nearly 30 years. WHOA!!! Definitely something I'd tell everyone about too!!!!

I can totally empathise. I work for a company that kindly allows 5 days off for fertility treatment. I do shift work and we have to clock off and on. You can log in to see other peoples shifts so you can see who is on duty or on days off. I am currently using that time off following embryo transfer. Having had 4 previous MC, and due to problems I have the knowledge that even if I get BFP I am highly likely to MC again, I only told my imediate supervisor about this round of treatment.

I was totally furious to get a text message yesterday from a girl at work telling my that she had logged into the shifts to see if I was on duty to see that my time off was showing as FERTILITY TREATMENT for everyone to see!! I was so upset and angry, which also doesn't help when I'm 3 days post transfer and supposed to not be stressed!

I work for the public sector, you'd think stuff like that wouldn't happen! When I get back I will be sending a strongly worded email explaining exactly what I think of them computer system!! ANd for any of you that might recognise it that computer system is BOBO - MFSS

The list of 'reasons for absence' is appalling the more I look at it. Here are some more examples:

'Conditions and disabilities present from birth such as Spina Bifida, cleft palate'

'Hereditary and degenerative disorders and diseases of the nerves, ears and eyes including migraine, deafness, blindness, meningitis, epilepsy, MS, Alzheimer's, bells palsy'

the list goes on, in great detail.

I cannot fathom why the employer would need to know that about its staff unless it was planning on selling the data

I had to fill in a leave of absence form recently admittedly it wasn't medical but I gave the whole saga as to why I was off. Like you UnGooglable my immediate boss is lovely but HR/payroll like to stick their noses in

Tell them your prostate is playing up, it comes under the right category :)