AIBU to think that although J Kyle is a dick and his show is awful...

[DraenorQueen]

...it's a bloody good indication of how so many young women and men have been brought up to view sex and relationships? I've been off work this week and am quite skint so have have a bit of a crap-TV-fest.

Ok, to get it out of the way, Jeremy himself is just AWFUL. "Bear-baiting" is the exact right term for the way he interacts with his guests - it's pure manipulation and the whole ethos of the show is quite clearly supposed to be "God look at these gross people," rather than the promised help or support.

But more than anything, how bloody depressing is it that every single day without fail, you get some poor young person (usually a woman but not always) whose partner is abusive, unfaithful and generally horrible. But they so often won't leave. "Because I love him." How have so many women been brought up to set the bar so low? I'm not a parent myself so genuinely interested to hear opinions from people who are. How the hell do we go about teaching young people that they are uniquely valuable and that their entire worth isn't based on who they can get to have sex with them?

By the way this was kind of inspired by an interesting thread in relationships about how many women only really come into their own when they're a bit older.

'Because I love him'

I don't think this kind of reasoning is by any means confined to Jeremy Kyle Show guests either. It's truly depressing. My own theory is that most little girls (and some little boys) are brought up to be people-pleasers - being a 'good girl' means making other people happy, always considering other people's feelings before your own, having no sense of self-worth other than what you mean to other people. I was very much brought up like this and ended up in a violent, controlling relationship myself because of it. Its been a very long road to move on from that kind of conditioning.

I completely agree with your views about JK himself. Apparently Graham, head of the 'after care team' is actually a highly experienced and credible professional (I read this on another MN thread), so heaven knows what he's doing getting involved in this dreadful mess.

I don't think this kind of reasoning is by any means confined to Jeremy Kyle Show guests either.
No, I totally agree. This is an issue that affects all of society but not JK definitely doesn't represent people of all socio-economic backgrounds.
having no sense of self-worth other than what you mean to other people. God, you've kind of put into words something I've always felt!
Also, it's scary that Graham could be a respected professional yet stand there silently as JK whirls these volatile men up into a violent frenzy. I couldn't in all conscience work in that environment.

I don't think many of the people who appear on it really consider the consequences of airing their innermost secrets on national television, they just want to be on national television.

Re the self-worth thing, I can remember feeling absolutely destroyed by break-ups in my 20s. Completely destroyed. It was like now that this person didnt' want to be with me, I just didn't exist any more. Like I had no agency or control of my own. My parents had always treated me like an extension of them, rather than a person in my own right, and I had absolutely no idea who I was. I also had a really starry-eyed, Disney-fied view of relationships and was just dying to be rescued by a handsome prince I think

So I can understand totally why women cling on so desperately to these dreadful men, but its still enormously frustrating to watch. Its such a crying waste of time and energy trying to change a man who is doing you no good at all.

I have real issue with chick lit/flicks etc that condition young people into believing the 'happy ever after'.
So unrealistic. So few 'stories' reflect real life and don't help prepare for real world relationships.
Such a big difference between sex and love and relationships.
Being childless I have no experience in the responsibility of teaching someone all the differences.
Despite loving the idea of the happy ever after , not enough concentrates on the frogs before the prince!
IMHO
A

That's really interesting Lotta. I completely agree about the WASTE of your own life living so unhappily.

My own parents weren't outright abusive but my mum was wrapped up her alcoholism and my dad just worked and shouted. When I got older and went through puberty, I was always called fat or fat cow by my dad or siblings and I had not a shred of self confidence. I was drawn towards the slightest bit of male attention and throughout some late teens ans twenties had realtionships with some truly terrible inadequate men. I put up with infidelity, sometimes right under my nose. I even turned down the most amazing opportunity to work abroad for one shitty bloke. When they got bored and had reduced me to a desperate pile of crap, I was always dumped and, as you say, felt like I was entirely worthless. What a fucking waste of an entire decade.

I just feel sad that so many women live like this but thankful that counselling, a career I could throw myself into, and years of living entirely independently have opened my eyes.

It's not just "because I love him" though, it's because we're sold the idea in movies, novels, etc that if you love him enough you can "fix him". See Fifty Shades of Grey, for instance. [Spoiler alert] All that crap he puts her through, but through the almighty power of her love, he is redeemed... "All he needs is the love of a good woman", etc...

I have been shocked at Graham's passive responses to the really awful attitude shown by JK - how can someone who is a professional stand by when JK shouts and yells at someone who is clearly damaged? I occasionally catch the programme and sometimes have to switch off, I can't bear it.

The other week there was a young woman who'd had (and seemed to still have) a serious drug problem, and she had had a couple of kids removed.

JK almost literally screamed at her about how she was a terrible mother (she probably was terrible, I know) and just piled on the agony. The girl's own mother was sitting beside her, and there was obviously a history there.

I am surprised none of this breaks broadcasting standards, to be honest.

'Because I love him more than I love myself'

or

'Because I love him instead of myself'

would be more accurate.

It's just low self esteem and children get it by being raised by people who don't know how to foster and nuture self esteem in themselves, let alone others.

In relation to that, Dingleberry I find it interesting that sometimes when the guy proven to be a cheat, the woman's first response is "I do EVERYTHING FOR YOU!!!"

I don't think Graham is a professional. Most of the stuff he comes out with is a load of tripe. Or to be more accurate just obvious stuff that anyone could say. I'd love to know what qualifies him as an expert.

Serious respect for turning yourself around like that Draenor - its not easy but so very worth it

So true about the 'happy ever after' and 'love of a good woman' horseshit that is everywhere in our culture. It suggests that rotten, selfish, cheating men can be 'rescued' if a woman martyrs herself enough

You may well be right finewine. I remember another MNer on a thread a couple of years ago saying that she had had some professional dealings with him pre-JK and said he was a credible person. If that's true, its pretty disturbing that he's involved in the JK show at all. Maybe he is just a charlatan. Shudder either way.

I don't watch it but understand what's it's about from adverts.

It's a very sad indication of society that there is always enough people willing to go onto the show.

Yes TV and media portray the knight in shining armour and happy ever after but you'd have to be daft to believe in what is essentially a fairy tale and take it with a pinch of salt just like any other movie.

Since the idea of marriage before children went out the window its become socially acceptable and even financially rewarded to have multiple children with multiple fathers without any long term relationship. The children then see it as the norm to get pregnant young, swap partners every year etc and the cycle doesn't break as they think that's life.

Despite safe sex talks at school hopefully catching those where parents don't bother, the amount that seem to "accidentally" get pregnant or worse, have no idea who the father is, seems to be rising. The idea that a man will hang around if you have a surprise child needs addressing within sex ed urgently.

The show must have a large audience if it remains on, if nobody watched it would have ceased years ago.

I think a lot of them are very low intelligence. I read a study once and wish i could find it about how feminism is for the middle classes.

I don't agree with it but some of the points it made were valid if that makes sense!

It always makes me think of this poem

www.grahamstanier.com/

He's qualified, and presumably registered.

That has surprised me Tiktok

Fairenuff has hit the nail exactly on the head IMO. You can see generations of people like this, people who are mostly women, in my town. I find it very sad. Sad being a rather shit word to describe it really.

Not all of the guests on Jeremy Kyle are real. A few years ago some friends of mine got drunk and phoned the show, one of the girls making up some boyfriend troubles. She got a call back the next day from a researcher but owned up that it wasn't true. The researcher suggested they could make up a story and did she want to appear anyway?

So don't take it all as gospel.

I feel bad for these people, but I feel even worse for their own children.

I know women like this and it's so sad to see their children being raised in this terrible environment. I even know a few who have had 'band-aid' babies after their partner has cheated. I wish I could do something about it.

They are real people.

The Vanessa Feltz programme was taken off the air a few years ago when some of her guests were shown to be fake. The regulators are now really strict about making sure all these types of shows have only genuine people on.

Having said that, some of them may well exagerrate and milk their situation.

Autumn is spot on.

And I have never understood people's desire to "be on the telly" - nothing would make me air my dirty laundry in front of the viewing public: and though I've never seen JK, from what I've read about it, much of that laundry is considerably dirtier than mine!

I once read that a lot of them are told to dress down and not clean their teeth etc.