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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Just had a rather interesting argument at work...

128 replies

YouSaffBridge · 16/02/2016 09:32

We work for a pretty large firm, as part of a team of 10 people. Working from home is allowed within the firm - some more senior people do it when they want to, other people have negotiated it as part of their contract. IT etc is all set up to allow complete WFH.

WHF is not part of any of all of our team's contract but our manager is happy to allow it occasionally. One of us WHF one set day a week. Others do it occasionally. Reasons generally include standard things like waiting for large deliveries and workmen and attending doctors appointments. This has also included less urgent things like attending a child's school play, a vet appointment, and half day WHF when juggling caring for an ill child (i.e. both parents doing half days from home).

Our manager is fine with this. Our work couldn't be done all the time from home, but it can be done a lot. I imagine she sees it as part of treating her team like adults and acknowledging we all have lives as well.

At a team meeting this morning (without manager, which is probably relevant) one member of staff kicked off about it. They feel it is unfair that some people can just WHF with little notice. Their main issues as that they cannot, or do not need to, WHF. They don't have a laptop or PC at home they can work on, don't have any dependents that might need care (childcare, vets etc) and live in a rented property so don't need to stay in for tradesman. Individual concerned is very irate and even threw the word "discriminatory" into the conversation.

I can slightly see their point as some reasons for WHF are far less important or urgent than others (want to see your kids play? take a half day). However, when any of us ask to WHF, our manager could always say no if it is a problem - and does not. Most of the rest of the team operate on a "don't ask, don't get" mentality. There is no reason why this individual could not ask to WHF, or as IT if they can borrow a work laptop.

WIBU - is our team discriminatory, or are they U for complaining?

OP posts:
Original poster
YouSaffBridge · 16/02/2016 09:49

Stitches, I suspect HR/management are putting their heads in the sand about clear policies, due to the nature of the firm and the people who work here. A clear policy might piss off senior fee-earning staff!

OP posts:
StitchesInTime · 16/02/2016 09:50

X-posted. I see they haven't asked to WFH. They're definitely being unreasonable then.

NuckyT · 16/02/2016 09:51

Yes, Nucky, they definitely would.

There's no problem then - the problem would arise if some team members were being treated differently for no good reason.

In our organisation, if I go to recruit a new member of staff the assumption is that the eventual postholder will be entitled to ask for remote working to one degree or another, if they wish. If the role is not suitable for remote working (for example, a 'front of house' reception job) I would have make a good argument for why not.

ricketytickety · 16/02/2016 09:53

I would say that the individual doesn't want anyone to wfh, as they can't understand why you guys need to. Sounds like they're a bit twatty. They're argument seems to sound like 'I don't need to, so why should you be allowed to' which is very narrowminded. You need to and are allowed to. It's not discriminatory because they don't have a reason to do it. I wouldn't even engage in this 'argument' because you'll be pissing against the wind - they don't sound like they want to listen. Do they think wfh is a skive?!

Ludways · 16/02/2016 09:55

I'm in similar circumstances, 10 in team for big corporation, wfh is fine for all of us and everyone does it. I probably do it the least as I always end up doing housework as I get annoyed and can't concentrate, I end up working really late in order to get work hours in. It's just easier to go to work, lol

If the option is open to her, she can't complain.

OnlyLovers · 16/02/2016 09:55

They're being U. Does living in a rented property mean you never have to wait in for a delivery? Confused Not IME.

Having said that, if they asked to WFH for, say, an appointment or a delivery and were turned down, and someone else was allowed to WFH for, say, a child's play or child's appointment, then it would be discriminatory and they'd have something to kick up a fuss about.

How did you leave it?

ricketytickety · 16/02/2016 09:57

And if they really wanted to experience wfh, they could borrow a laptop and book a dental appointment. So it's not discriminatory, because they could do it.

Original poster
YouSaffBridge · 16/02/2016 09:57

Maybe they do, rickety? I don't think WFH was allowed in their previous organisation.

They went off on a mini-rant and we all sort of just mumbled and then ignored it Blush

I think in their head, because they haven't yet had a reason to ask because they don't have kids, pets or a house to maintain, and others of us do, they see that part of it as discriminatory?

OP posts:
Original poster
YouSaffBridge · 16/02/2016 09:58

There was no one of managerial or senior level at the catch up this morning, we were all the same level so I think we were all surprised and just didn't really know what to say!

I mean, if they really have a serious problem, surely they should be raising it with management rather than complaining to same-level colleagues?

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CadburysTastesVileNow · 16/02/2016 10:00

I don't see what's wrong with WFH and going to see a child's nativity play, so long as the time is made up later that day (assuming the work isn't time-critical). No one loses.

SistersOfPercy · 16/02/2016 10:01

live in a rented property so don't need to stay in for tradesman

People in rented need to stay in for tradesmen the same as anyone else.

NuckyT · 16/02/2016 10:03

When I'm working from home I'm often starting at 6am and finishing at 7 or 8pm, just to be sure I'm getting my hours in as I have DCs to get ready for school, make lunch/dinner for, etc.

I know some people don't like working from home as their work is their main social contact, so working from home can be very isolating. I know sometimes I don't like getting to 8pm and realising I haven't left the house all day!

GruntledOne · 16/02/2016 10:03

I assume that people who WFH in order to go to children's plays make the time up by working early or late.

I once worked in a company where there was quite a rigid policy about WFH requiring all sorts of bureaucracy. Our department was particularly pressured and there were times when people would need to WFH for personal reasons or, in particular, because they needed to get something complicated done in peace without interruptions from colleagues and the phone. We operated our very own policy that basically we were going to ignore the company's policy in the interests of team morale. It was a very successful department and the company essentially turned a blind eye. So I think having a rigid policy isn't necessarily the way to go.

DoreenLethal · 16/02/2016 10:04

Refer it to management. Not your issue.

Original poster
YouSaffBridge · 16/02/2016 10:05

Sorry, sisters - I meant when they have mentioned problems before they seem to have a management company that just does everything. It's not come up in the same way it has for others of us with burst pipes and broken front doors etc.

Gruntled, yes - for doctors appointments we wouldn't have to make the time up (though most of us do as, taking out our commute, we can put in a longer day "in the office"). For something like the child's play then the standard 8 hours was put in over a longer working day.

OP posts:
catsinthecraddle · 16/02/2016 10:10

they are idiot. Probably someone who cannot work at home (as in being a child, needing someone to tell him what to do) and picture everyone else in their bed watching daytime tv.

I worked regularly from home before children, for no other reasons than not being in the mood to commute, wanting to work in the garden on a sunny day, anything like that. It sounds like your manager would say yes for no special reason, so nothing is stopping your colleague to ask.

Some people just complain for the sake of complaining, don't bother about it, it's not like any of you WFH have done anything wrong at all!

MrsCampbellBlack · 16/02/2016 10:15

Is it that the unhappy colleague thinks people aren't actually working when WFH?

We don't have a set policy and won't agree contractually for people to WFH but we do treat people like grown ups. However it does have to work for the entire team so if a deadline or something was missed because the WFH person was uncontactable then there would be trouble.

I'd try and get to the bottom of why the angry one is angry.

CrotchetQuaverMinim · 16/02/2016 10:16

Sounds like they don't believe that you are actually working, when you work from home - they probably think that it means you are getting a half day off, a lie in, lounging around, maybe logging on now and then but not really working properly, and thus see it as unfair that they don't get these extra days off! Maybe someone needs to explain exactly what working from home entails, that the normal amount of work gets done, and that they could do it too - and be expected to produce work as usual by the end of it.

LurkingHusband · 16/02/2016 10:17

On a technical note, does WFH require you provide your own equipment ?

How does this square with your Information Security obligations ?

It would be a cold day in hell before I let any unconfigured kit access a secure network. (Note, the solution to that problem is not to make the network insecure Smile).

GoringBit · 16/02/2016 10:19

He sounds very strange (and U), why does he not just ask to WFH? When I had a job which allowed me to WFH, I did it one day a week, as did two of my colleagues (we were a very small team) and we all benefited from it. I probably put more work in on the days I W'edFH, and really appreciated having a day off from commuting.

Original poster
YouSaffBridge · 16/02/2016 10:24

I suspect that yes, they don't think we're working. Even though we're clearly online the whole time and chatting via email, and deadlines aren't missed (in fact, if anything they are met quicker because we're working at home in peace and quiet!).

Lurking, we remote in. I don't know the techy stuff behind it but it's a sort of remote desktop malarkey.

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shovetheholly · 16/02/2016 10:24

I don't get the fuss over working from home. Providing things still get done at the same rate and people are available should they need to be for meetings or teamworking, I really don't see any issue. Your colleague should just ask! There's absolutely no reason that the rationale for being at home can't including things that don't involve home ownership or children.

I suspect some people have issues with it because they are quite dishonest and ill-disciplined. I used to have a boss like this, who insisted that the whole team would just be sat in front of the TV if they were allowed to work at home. Actually, he was the one who had motivation issues - the rest of us were fine and when the organisation finally told him that he HAD to grant working from home rights (it was policy) we were all fine and he struggled.

Original poster
YouSaffBridge · 16/02/2016 10:28

we do treat people like grown ups

Exactly. As far as I see it, I appreciate this job and this firm more because they allow me to WFH on occasion. Even for silly reasons like going to the vets. So I'm more committed to the firm and work harder when WFH to ensure that it is allowed again.

OP posts:
5hell · 16/02/2016 10:29

they presumably see it as a big perk and feel they are missing out somehow?! Confused

they should realise that working somewhere that allows that kind of flexibility and trusts it's employees to WHF Wink is a perk in itself and typically creates a happier, more harmonious workplace

some people just like a moan too :)

boredofusername · 16/02/2016 10:30

I work from home most of the time. Once a fortnight I go into the office and end up working very late that day because I lose so much time travelling.

If the type of work allows it, and the person is happy to be alone most of the time, it's a more efficient way of working. And cheaper for the employer as they don't need as many expensive desks in an expensive office. I do miss out on some general chit-chat which can be very useful but I don't get sucked into office politics either. And I save ££££ on commuting and when my ds was younger on childcare before and after school etc.

As for information security, I have a work laptop in my current job and could I think claim for a proportion of my broadband costs but never have. But in my previous job I used to log on using my own laptop. And even in this job I can access emails via my personal laptop and OWA.

Ultimately employers (and colleagues) do well to judge (other) employees on output rather than time at desk.