Is it usual for school to ban time off for dentist and GP?

[TheCountessofFitzdotterel]

School has an attendance / lateness problem and as a result have said they won't authorise absences for dentist and GP in school hours.
I am quite happy to TRY to get appointments after school but given you can't always get the time you want I am buggered if I will make them wait for treatment rather than miss a lesson. AIBU?

But but but... bonus half days off school for the dentist followed by a sneaky cafe trip with Mummy for something sugary and tooth-decaying are an integral part of childhood . Going after school?! Madness...

We always go after school for routine dentist and GPs appts but I do have to take DD1 out of school for her hospital appts.
They only do them in school hours...but seeing as the clinic is paediatric psychology I doubt they could fit everyone in outside school hours...and I don't think the school could refuse. I think they go down as authorised absence- I write to them in advance 'asking permission'.
She does have to be taken out for longer than strictly necessary because parking at the hospital can be a nightmare (might need to park 20 min walk away) so you need to leave plenty of time and then the clinic is often running late...
Thinking about it I think it is slightly unfair - our council are trying to reduce travelling for their employees. But we aren't in a city there are lots of rural/semirural schools -it really doesn't make sense if they then say they expect 100% attendance.

When DD2 was in P1 they all had to have a check up by an optician. The appts were made during school hours and at the nearest community hospital. It is a 25 min drive away - for a 10 min appt - back 25 min. So minimum an hour absence (and that is where DD1 has her appointments so parking means you have to add time on )
However if you couldn't drive there (no car etc) there is one bus an hour - and it takes 45 mins or so - you could be out for 3-4 hours depending on timings... As it was I didn't take DD2 -has been regularly going to the opticians since tiny (DD1 wears glasses) and had had the 'special' test they did.

Same with Speech therapy - the therapist comes into school and they do all the children on one day but they were suggesting we should take them to the therapist - different place so a 30 min drive away...with buses every 2 hrs at some times of the day ....thankfully they changed their mind otherwise some children could have missed whole days for 30 mins SALT.

Thanks everyone.
We do always book dental appointments when we leave the last one but still can't always get holiday /half term ones. Thing is, without meaning to dripfeed, ds1 has autistic traits which make it extremely difficult to get him in the chair with his mouth open and we are lucky enough to have a truly wonderful dentist who the dcs adore, to the extent that they look forward to going. So although we could make our lives easier in terms of getting appointments by switching to a different one, we are very reluctant to do this. Plus it's not just the check-ups - dd has had several abscesses and fillings. We could of course keep ds1 with Ms Lovely Dentist and switch the other two, but in terms of getting ds1 to do it, it really helps that he goes in with his siblings.
Otherwise their attendance is near perfect and they haven't been late once, even when ds1 was melting down at the wrong moment and making it hard.
School can't stop us going and they say any child who misses school for an unauthorised appointment will have to attend a lunchtime detention to make up the missed work, but then I don't really have any objection to that - permission or not, the work has to be made up.

BeaufortBelle that's a shame about CAMHS. Ds1 was in a group at CAMHS before Xmas and they managed to fix it for 5pm so no-one had to miss school.

I always push to make any non-urgent GP or dentist appointments after school hours.

In fact, the only non-urgent appointment any of mine have had in school hours was when DD1 had to do a fasting blood glucose test a few years ago. Fasting tests need to be done before breakfast, so although she wasn't too ill to go to school she had to go in late because she had to get the sample drawn off and then come home for a quick breakfast before heading off to school. She was in school at about 10am. I had mentioned it in a written note to her form tutor first and it was never queried.

With our GP you can't book ahead for appointments. You have to ring at 8am on the day & get allocated one that day. If its in school time thats tough. If you can't make that time & have to turn it down you have to ring again the following day & try again. No chance of getting one at a time to suit you or the school! We are in a rural area. There isn't an alternative GP. Luckily the school know this & don't complain.

When my son was having orthodontic appointments it meant that,to get them in our town, they had to be on a Tuesday within school hours. It was this or take a hallf day out of school to travel to the main branch of the surgery, 20+ miles away.
I wrote to school explaining that this is what would be happening every 6 weeks for the next 18 months. I had no problems at all. To be honest, the waiting room was full of children from all the surrounding schools!
In their defence, the surgery ran like clockwork with appointment times, and we were rarely out of school for more than Half an hour! Good for me too, as I work in a school!

Our school doesn't like it and only authorises medical appointments during the school day 'at the Headteacher's discretion' and she is a mardy cow, so not often.

I think its pathetic, to be honest.

Do you need the school to authorise these appointments? What exactly are they going to do to you? I've only had to deal with one hospital appointment so far but it didn't occur to me to ask permission, I just told DD's teacher she wouldn't be in.

Tell the school that this rule doesn't apply to you or your children and that you will take them to the doctor or dentist when it is convenient for you.

Treat the schools with the contempt it deserves when it issues dictats like this to parents. Parents have quite enough going on without schools making things harder.

DS2's orthoptist appointments always fall in school hours - thankfully, 3 of the last 5 have fallen in half term. His paediatrician runs a 9-12 clinic. Again, thankfully, he's managed to land 3 appointments in a row during the Easter holidays.
Thankfully, for DS1, his psychiatrist does a monthly Saturday morning clinic. Psychiatrist's receptionist always moans about us wanting this slot, but it's stipulated in his notes, since he doesn't to to school locally and would have to miss a whole day, if he got a weekday appointment.

Our school is completely happy to authorise orthodontist appointments (as it should be) but asks that normal dental appointments are not in school hours. My daughter has 100% attendance over the 14 months that she has had braces on, despite having to miss a lesson every 6 weeks. We did manage to arrange her appointments though, so she only missed the last lesson in school. Worked out well.

Treat the schools with the contempt it deserves when it issues dictats like this to parents. Parents have quite enough going on without schools making things harder So you understood it isn't the schools imposing such rules then? .

I've had to take dd to doc four times this month and they have all been authorised As long as you only missing an hour or so then the school in unreasonable in my opinion. Dentist I try to get after school but if it was an emergency I wouldn't.

It is quite common for NHS treatment for children to only be available in school hours

Yes - my dentist is private but does NHS work for kids, so that's fine, they'll do appointments after school. But my son's orthodontist does its NHS appointments in school hours and private appointments out of hours - it seems a bit unethical that you have to pay thousands of pounds for treatment to avoid missing lessons - but as my son's school finishes at 2.30 we can squeak in with the last NHS slot before 3.30. I suppose an orthodontist doesn't count as routine dentist though so will be authorised absence.

Our dentist wont allow you book an appointment in school hours even when it's the holidays!

Do they only work after 3pm?

Do they only work after 3pm?

Nope! They are open all day, I presume it is something to do with what a PP mentioned in that maybe they don't get paid for non emergency treatment for children during school hours. The girl on the desk literally cannot book a NHS check up for a child on the system prior to 3.15. We only found this out when trying to book in an appointment for a day during half term. The computer does not recognise school holidays and therefore wouldn't book it for the morning.

It's not really been an issue as we book 6 months in advance and have always been able to get a suitable family appointment for after school.

It's absolute rubbish to say that NHS dentists don't get paid to see non emergencies in school hours.

I have no idea either way Robin but I can confirm that I can't book a non-emergency appointment for a child during school hours at my dentist.

I think if a parent is a SAHP they should book their appointments in school hours, leaving evening appointments for those who work, particularly if it is a distance away from their GP. A kid missing a few hours of lessons once in a blue moon has less impact that someone having to take unpaid time off work. The teacher has a much greater need of the 'out of hours' appointment

Most schools would much prefer you to arrange routine appointments out of school hours. This is the norm ime.

However, sometimes it just isn't possible though. Emergency appointments should occur as required. Often you will have limited chance to chose a last minute/on the day appointment time anyway. And at my doctors if you want to get a normal appointment slot with a doctor or a nurse - you have to book at least 2 weeks in advance.

It is unusual to get to choose hospital appointment times too ime - I have the same issue for myself as I teach and work in a school. I have managed to normally get the first appointment of the day for my regular appointments - which is at 8:15am or 8:30am - thats the best I can do and I still miss the start of school as a result. Would be the same for a child.

And orthodontist appointments can be tricky too. Round here if you want an NHS appointment then you have to be prepared to have a 9-3 appointment time. There are some school holiday appointment times but that won't always be possible due to how often the child is needed to be seen.

Round here the only way to get out of school hour appointments for orthodontist work is to pay private. I know, I did it for DD - more because I couldn't take time off in school hours so regularly due to working in a school. So even though DD qualified for NHS treatment we have still had to pay in order to get appointments when I want them.

From a schools point of view and attendance marks - you are better going after registration closes for a session, so making sure they are present for morning registration and for afternoon registration - so a late afternoon would work best.

It is very telling that the orthodontist appointment slips Dd gets comes with a tear off slip at the bottom. Tells you what time the appointment was and what time the child left the orthodontist surgery - it is addressed to school staff.

And yes - very frustrating that people have to pay £1000s to get out of school appointments. But guess it is on;y way to fit everyone in.

Ds has consultant appointments every 6 months for his asthma and now has an ENT clinic to attend, these are all during school hours.
School are very understanding, tbh there's nothing they can really do otherwise.

Im willing to bet that teachers who rent have the same problem with gas safety checks.

DFE guidance from October 14 states that non attendance for medical and dental appointments should be counted as authorised, but schools should encourage appointments out of hours.

Time should be the minimum required to attend.