To think the in-laws are being very unfair to us

[Flugelpip]

This is long and complicated and I genuinely want to know if I'm being unreasonable. So.

My in-laws inherited a large sum of money from my MIL's parents a few years ago. My in-laws were never wealthy (MIL didn't work, FIL had ups and downs so they knew periods of limited income). They used some of the money for having fun which they richly deserved, but they aren't extravagant and have a lot left over. They own their house but are very aware of nursing home expenses etc they may have in the future, which is sensible, right, good and proper.

MIL is one of two. Her sibling got half of the inheritance, although she was never very involved in looking after the parents (whereas MIL was). MIL's sibling kept most of her part of the inheritance but gave a large sum to each of her two children so they could buy houses etc, and it was gratefully received.

MIL also has two children. One, my DH, has received almost nothing - a few hundred pounds. The other is financially disastrous. Whatever DH's sibling wants, MIL pays for, from buying them a house outright (because they couldn't get a mortgage as one is bankrupt and anyway they had no savings for a deposit) to buying groceries, paying for nursery fees, childcare, redoing their garden THREE times, swimming lessons for the children, expensive hairdressing, regular massages and therapy, clothes and shoes, between three and five new cars as far as I know (of the Range Rover sort, not Nissan Micras), thousands of pounds of business investments, hundreds on jewellery repairs, eye surgery, private cosmetic dentistry... DH's sibling works part-time and has turned down full-time jobs because it's too stressful to work full-time (remember, they have no money at all, massive debts, and no childcare expenses). DH's sibling's partner is 'an entrepreneur' but has never made a profit in any business. The expenses are constant and MIL pays for everything. DH's sibling is very close to the in-laws geographically and emotionally and has always been good at handling the in-laws.

Meanwhile, DH and I are self-employed. DH is struggling financially thanks to government cost-cutting, which the in-laws know. I am in a marginally better position at the moment and have been keeping DH out of his overdraft with my savings, which I'd put aside for badly needed home improvements. Our (very ordinary semi-detached) house is barely functional and needs new bathrooms, a new kitchen and some structural building work, desperately. These are not cosmetic improvements - everything is broken and nothing works. We've lived here for five years in very poor conditions. My in-laws have complained for years about how cold the house is when they come to stay, and about the bathrooms not working properly, and about how shabby/untended our garden is. We work all the time and I keep the place clean and tidy but I cannot relay a lawn. Now that my children are old enough to notice, they have started asking why our house is so cold and dirty and why nothing works. We have to live in London for DH's work and we can't afford to move anywhere better, even if it is a smaller house. Until the major work is done on the house we can't do smaller improvements like sorting out the garden, so we are stuck. We basically have no choice but to do the work on it, somehow. We have started getting quotes, hoping that we can borrow more on our mortgage (which could be problematic given DH's situation), and MIL asked how much it was going to cost. I told her our first estimate (which is five times the amount I've saved in five years).

'Oh, that's such a lot of money. I wish we could help you.' (in a wistful tone of voice, not offering.)
I said, 'It is a lot of money.'

End of conversation.

I don't think adult children should expect anything at all in the way of support from their parents as a matter of course; I've never asked my parents for money for anything in my adult life (not that they have it). My DH doesn't ever ask his parents for anything. I believe in saving up, working hard, budgeting and waiting for the chance to do things.

But this is boiling my piss. They don't seem to see that they are treating their children totally differently. MIL's parents would be devastated to know DH (who they adored) was being cut out. Even though they were closer to MIL they were scrupulously fair about dividing their wealth between their children and would expect MIL to do the same, and MIL's sibling has set that example (which MIL thinks is WONDERFUL and told us about!). MIL has said that their wills allow for DH to get the equivalent of what his sibling has borrowed for the house before the remainder is divided between him and his sibling but I really think there won't be anything left by then (and anyway, I hate the idea of waiting for someone to die to see what we can get). (Also, real talk: it could be decades.) I do not care what MIL does with her money if she's spending it on herself - she can throw it in a hole if it makes her happy. But I think she is being unfair to DH (who is quietly upset about it) and to half of her grandchildren. My sibling-in-law is very irresponsible about money and all I have said to MIL is that she's not helping by bailing them out constantly as there will come a point when the money is gone or my in-laws will need it and they'll be stuck. I've NEVER hinted that I think the situation is unfair. I've NEVER criticised them when they say, 'Oh, we've put another 10K into the business because it will fix this problem and then everything will be fine' (and it never is). I don't even talk to DH about it because I don't want to pressure him into complaining. Still.

Piss.

Boiling.

If anyone's still reading, AIBU?

[Flugelpip]

I think it depends on how you define need, diddl. I would not wish poverty/financial uncertainty on anyone but if you are in a very bad financial situation and don't want to work full-time (you may have missed this but MIL pays for childcare and SIL was offered full-time work more than once but turned it down, as did her partner when offered jobs), maybe you need to cut back on unnecessary things. There are very regular spa days, hairdressing appointments, massages, shopping trips etc. There is always a reason why the latest car isn't right any more. I wouldn't want to go on spa days etc and DH certainly wouldn't but I wish SIL would show some sign of being aware the well isn't bottomless.

And the house that they bought needs upkeep as all houses do, so MIL pays for that too, because it is 'their investment'. But SIL is not saving any money for a deposit for a house of their own, so I don't know when the investment could ever be redeemed. MIL would obviously not put them out on the street and neither would we! DH and I are waiting to hear that the house is being sold to buy something else as we know SIL's partner wants to move to a bigger rural house and start a smallholding.

[EastMidsMummy]

YANBU to be pissed off, but YABU to do anything about it.

[Schwabischeweihnachtskanne]

What are the odds of money-pit BIL's entrepreneurial exploits eating up all MIL's inheritance, and then PIL being persuaded to re-mortgage their own house for one final investment to save the day and make everything all right... and losing the house, and ending up living with OP in their final years, complaining about the cold and the lack of renovations while their other adult child remains in a house bought for her (and her entrepreneur DH, and maybe their by then near adult children) but technically owned by the PIL because for some intangible, never to be discussed reason this needs to be the way things are...

[Flugelpip]

Oh my GOD no! I came for comfort, not nightmares...

[OOAOML]

If they talk about the house as their investment do you know whose name it is in? Might there be trouble if it is classed as your PIC'S estate?

[OOAOML]

Sorry PIL!

[Flugelpip]

I think it is in the PIL's name, OOAOML but I think their DC is named as well. The partner isn't, because of being bankrupt and because I don't think they actually trust the partner not to spend the lot.

I fully expect they will leave everything to DH's sibling/family and I'm absolutely sure there's nothing we can or should do about it. The only thing that can happen is that we'd fall out with them and the others, and it would look like our fault for being grasping. I'm glad to know I'm not unreasonable to think they're being unfair but I'm just going to have to take that feeling of KNOWING I'm right and enjoy it...

[Wardy1993]

Op surely if their house is in pil's name then when the time comes your SIL will have to pay inheritance tax? You're not just allowed to give away assets worth that much as you like are you? (I don't know much about money/houses/inheritance though so I could be talking rubbish!!!) btw hope you're feeling better after having a rant

[LillianGish]

he was calmly adamant that taking money from them, even as a loan, would give them too much influence over what we did and would be more stressful than how things are This.
On a practical, lawn-laying note, reseeding a lawn is surprisingly easy and relatively inexpensive. Choose the right seed for the conditions, shady, hard-wearing etc - easy enough to work out which one you need. Rake the soil, sow the seed. You could actually do it now and you wouldn't have to worry about watering as there is bound to be enough rain. I actually pegged some garden fleece over mine with tent pegs to keep off the birds, but not sure if this is strictly necessary. By early summer you will have a lawn. Treat it gently the first year and keep some seed back to fill in any patches. I did this when we rented a house in London which had a patch of mud out the back where the lawn should have been - it became my pride and joy!

[Jux]

Oh yes. Just sow some seed. I know you want to wait until the main construction work is done, but it is easy to sow a lawn, and if it gets a bit trampled while you'reaiting/while work's being done, you can easily sow again in those patches.

If you do it now, then you can watch it grow as a sign of better things to come. A living breathing symbol!

[BillSykesDog]

I spoke to DH last night about it (without mentioning this) and he was calmly adamant that taking money from them, even as a loan, would give them too much influence over what we did and would be more stressful than how things are.

That's it really. It's nothing to do with your PIL and everything to do with your DH. And it is his family and his call, you need to accept that. I suspect that there may be more wisdom there than you realise. I have known people who have accepted funding from parents and had a nightmare. Had to hand over control of where they live, if they can move, where and how their children are educated, even how their home is decorated and housework is done.

Have you thought about asking your own parents?

[Tobehonest2]

Having read this thread, I do think that there is often a subtext to this kind of thread which is screened out by the OP.
Parents sadly, are often much closer to their daughters than sons. I speak as the mother of 3 sons. I know that my DIL, nice as she is, tends to see us in terms of financial help and support. We are rarely invited to be involved in their lives (her parents are very involved) but we are contacted when they need a financial donation of some sort. For example we were asked to contribute to her parents airfares (they are not from the UK) when they come over for Xmas but we are not invited for Christmas itself because her family is so important. We were asked for a large financial donation to their wedding but never thanked by her (at the wedding or privately) in case her parents were hurt. The same thing happened to at least 3 of my close friends.
Ditto house deposit requested and never acknowledged by our DIL. It is hard to feel appreciated or respected in any sense. My son and DIL are both high earners (we are not) but there is always an expectation that we will pick up the tab.
I am not stupid and I know that any contact is always because they want something. There have already been suggestions from her about helping manage our finances (she is an accountant). We smile and decline. She is a wonderfully affectionate and loving daughter to her parents.
A willingness to include us occasionally in their lives would make me feel differently about money and inheritance. I know this is a common problem faced by many PILS who are often excluded but expected to stump up with financial gifts.

[BillSykesDog]

ToBeHonest that is not normal! I don't know how you put up with that!

[Schwabischeweihnachtskanne]

Tobehonest that is not normal. My parents have only daughters but every time I speak to my mother she inadvertently mentions yet another very significant expense they are paying for for one of my multiple sisters. They do treat all of us to meals out and insist on paying if we go to an attraction etc, and I have no grounds to complain - they are very generous. However it bothers me that they are being played by one DSis and her DH and will probably lose their beloved home to them sooner rather than later. DM literally mentions another very big ongoing expense they are paying for each time I speak to her, and it is pretty clear she and her husband are positioning themselves to move from their rental into my parents' large house and move my (not especially elderly) parents into a granny flat. She is a bit like the sister in the OP - she has been "fragile" (or rather brittle would be more appropriate) since her late teens, and DM especially has vast blind spots regarding her and treats her as though she is a saint made of very thin glass... additionally she is married to a money pit "entrepreneur" who is always just about to make his millions but in the mean time has had to sell one house (given to him outright by his own parents) to cover the debts of one disastrous short lived business venture, before moving on to another, which it is unclear how he funds...

[mrsmuddlepies]

I think it is 'normal' for many DILs to see their PILs principally in terms of money hand outs. There is another thread on a very similar theme on AIBU at the moment. My lovely female friend had generous in laws that paid for private school and university fees for her three children. She would not allow them to come for Christmas because their English was poor and it would make her own family feel uncomfortable.
This is Mumsnet so you don't often hear the MIL perspective on here. There are a lot of mothers of young families who do not see in- laws as family but do expect a share of financial handouts.

[Schwabischeweihnachtskanne]

But mrsmud and tobehonest on this thread it is the older couple's adult daughter milking them for endless very considerable amounts of money - even a house bought outright for them to live in - not the evil DIL...

I think it it is a certain personality type that this happens with - the brittle child who is brazen enough to ask or drop gargantuan hints but perceived as fragile so nobody can ever call them on it and the parents are terrified to say no in case they "break" their brittle adult offspring (fragile marriage to a liability, possible previous life crises of one type or another or a genuine serious physical or mental illness/ vulnerability in the adult child that makes saying no to them or speaking of them in any other way than either admiration or pity a deep seated unbreakable taboo).

It's not the gender of the adult child that leads to this happening, or an expectation DILs have, it's a weird relationship that forms when family mythology dictates that one adult child has to be treated with kid gloves and propped up financially and emotionally/ psychologically endlessly... with or without real need.

[mrsmuddlepies]

But in both cases it is the DIL complaining that the PILS 'money' is not coming in her direction. Look at the other thread too. I bet if the DILS were more friendly and inclusive there might be an unbending on both sides.

[SnobblyBobbly]

I completely understand why it's so upsetting for you, but as some previous posters have said, it's down to your DH to speak to them about it.

My own Mum was on the verge of doing something huge for one of my siblings, leaving the rest of us to our own devices and after feeling upset about it for three weeks, I had to call and talk to her about it.

I said knew I had no right to tell her what to do with her money, however I did have to tell her how it was making the rest of us feel. She, like your in laws, swore she was always fair, and we'd spoken of other Famillies who had been torn apart by money/inheritance issues so I reminded her of those situations. I made it clear that none of us wanted more than the other - we just wanted it to be fair, even if that meant none of us getting any help at all.

She thanked me for talking to her and said she had genuinely not looked at it from our perspective and hadn't considered some of the points I'd made. In her eyes the 'favoured' sibling was simply the youngest and despite being in a better financial position than our older siblings, that was the over riding reason. She was used to looking out for them and they'd lived at home the longest and Mum just didn't consider that we'd feel hurt - after all we'd been independent for a few years longer.....

As a result of our conversation, she changed her plans to an even split between us all and peace was restored. No harm was done to our relationship.

Sometimes you need to just get it out there - say the words of no return 'I need to talk to you about something....' and let them know how they're making you feel.

[Schwabischeweihnachtskanne]

mrsmud I haven't seen the other thread, will look in a minute though I should be doing something non MN but the DIL is only having a vent about her husband not being treated anything like the same as his sister despite also struggling a bit financially. She is not asking for money but simply having a private vent about the siblings being treated so differently - despite the parents knowing their son cannot afford to properly heat and renovate his house, which is not even structurally sound, they give very large sums to their daughter, who "handles" them better and whose DH stumbles along burning money on entrepreneurial ventures that don't bear fruit.

This rings bells for me with my own parents who do the same for one specific sister who is in some ways in a very similar position to the OP's SIL. The sister "handles" them emotionally and is brittle, parents are afraid to say no to her or ever, ever concede that she might not be absolutely and completely perfect and right in every way. I have met somebody else like this, hard but fragile - brittle - and she also has a lot of people twisted around her little finger both in terms of ridiculously unreasonable child care expectations and also financial support to allow her to peruse luxury hobbies and study endlessly, because everyone has to tip toe around her being supportive lest she falls apart...

[Jux]

... son cannot afford to properly heat and renovate his house, which is not even structurally sound, they give very large sums to their daughter ... whose dh stumbles along burning money on entrepreneurial ventures that don't bear fruit.

This. Learn that sentence off by heart and say it to MIL. I know your dh has said that you shouldn't take money from them, but you can still point out the disparity. You would be doing them a big big favour by voicing unequivocally what is happening with bil's continual failures to run viable businesses. ILs may be desperate for a way to stop chucking money at them but are unable to break the habit and just need someone else to point out how dreadful it is to give them the push needed. They may think that from an outside perspective it looks like they're just doing the right thing, being supportive etc, but if they know that from outside it looks like throwing good money after bad, they maytake that perspective and run with it.

They are going to be left completely broke with no home and nothing left otherwise, aren't they?

[mrsmuddlepies]

I suppose I am looking at it from the angle of the PILS. The OP admits that the PILS are 'emotionally closer to their daughter and the OP makes it clear that she wouldn't want any financial help if it made her feel indebted to her PILS (she clearly does not like them much).
I hear so many stories from friends of their DILS having great 'expectations' with regard to possible financial handouts as long as the DILS can still keep their distance because, money aside, many DILS don't regard their husband's parents as true family.
I wonder how people would react if the there was a thread the other way around ? it is very common for some families to take the maternal ILS away on holiday but not so common for paternal ILS to be included.
I don't think inequality and favouritism is ever a good thing but we only ever hear one side of the story and in these two threads there are DILS bellyaching about PILS not dishing out money in the direction they want it to go.

[cornishglos]

YABU. I, like you, don't believe that adult children should expect financial support from their parents. Neither do I believe that siblings should be treated the same. It's none of your business how they spend their money. Maybe the other sibling asks for it?

[Schwabischeweihnachtskanne]

cornish what do you mean when you say you do not believe in treating siblings the same? Do you just mean they should be treated as individuals, or do you mean its fine to play favourites? If the daughter was struggling and the son was highly successful it would make sense to say that if you help the daughter with a deposit for a flat there is no expectation or obligation or need to give the son the same amount of money when he has no need of it...

However the parents themselves are complaining about the state of their son's home when they visit and know it will take more money than their son can raise any time soon to make it properly liveable... they are not "giving to each according to their need", they are ignoring the fact their son is in a barely habitable home with not much chance to improve his lot despite working and his wife working full time, whilst according to the original post buying their DD and her financially catastrophic husband "a house outright (because they couldn't get a mortgage as one is bankrupt and anyway they had no savings for a deposit) to buying groceries, paying for nursery fees, childcare, redoing their garden THREE times, swimming lessons for the children, expensive hairdressing, regular massages and therapy, clothes and shoes, between three and five new cars as far as I know (of the Range Rover sort, not Nissan Micras), thousands of pounds of business investments, hundreds on jewellery repairs, eye surgery, private cosmetic dentistry.."

[mrsmuddlepies]

Sorry Schwab, I think you are reading too much into the list without knowing the background story. You know your own background story and you are projecting this onto the original post. I bet there is more to it. The sister probably makes the PILS feel needed and necessary.
Projecting my experience onto these kind of complaining, hard done by posts, usually reveals PILS that feel neglected and ignored and unsurprisingly reluctant to donate large sums to a family that clearly don't much like them.

[CombineBananaFister]

YANBU, it is unfair but unless your DH wants to say something about it then I would try and move on or it will eat you up.
Just be remember you can sleep at night soundly knowing that you have married the type of person who wouldn't rip off his own parent unlike his sibling and OH.