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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think our kids have been set up to fail?

298 replies

theluckiest · 13/02/2016 14:49

There are heated conversations in Education about this but I really feel everyone should know what's happening - I have only been teaching primary for 5 years. However, for most of that I have taught Year Six. This week I came close to quitting a job I love and think I'm good at. This isn't about pay or conditions. This is about a system designed to make kids fail - the new 'expectations' for an 11 year old will ensure that most children this year will simply not reach them. They will be judged as 'working towards' ie. not good enough. AIBU to think this is going to be a national scandal this year?!! If your kids are in Y6, I am so so sorry. Sorry that they have been set up to fail, sorry that their lovely rich curriculum will be abandoned for a diet of SATS drilling and sorry that concerns for children's mental health have gone through the roof. This is happening right now people - in your kids' schools. AIBU to think something just has to give?!!!https://m.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tes.com%2Fnews%2Fschool-news%2Fbreaking-views%2Fdear-nicky-morgan-a-talented-and-demand-teacher-has-resigned-she&sid=0&appid=966242223397117&referrer=sociallplugin&rdr

OP posts:
Feenie · 13/02/2016 20:30

I disagree. Can you imagine the irreparable damage you could do to an 11 year old's self esteem by telling them they are not only a failure but that they can wave goodbye to all their friends as well because they're not good enough to join them? Terrible, horrible idea.

PennyPebbles · 13/02/2016 20:35

Progress 8 is the new measure for secondary schools and requires certain subjects to be taken in certain buckets. It is getting more prescriptive and both languages and either History or Geography are going to be compulsory GCSEs shortly.

When I started at this school 12 years ago we had 4 pathways for KS4 children. We ran our own construction centre. Now there is one pathway for almost all with a few college placements for those in the behaviour unit or school refusers. I have a child who wrote something for every question on his mock exam but scored 0/54. He cries at home about being a failure. His parents and I both agree that he shouldn't be entered, but as it is his EBACC subject for progress 8 he will be entered and it will be hoped he can scrape a G to get some points for that bucket.

Feenie · 13/02/2016 20:37

They'll be told they are not working at age related expectations.

Most 11 year olds will understand that perfectly. So will the Y6s next year when they are given that label and made to resit in December.

teacherwith2kids · 13/02/2016 20:38

I've been thinking about what cleaty asked - about how we really raise standards - for the long term, ie at the end of as child's educational journey, rather than 'optimising their performance at each tiny step along the way to the detriment of the whole'.

Counterintuitively, I think it would be best done by teaching less, better, so that every child has an absolutely secure foundation onto which extra skills and information can be relatively quickly grafted.

What has happened is the reverse - children have been observed to do something not particularly well at 16, or 14, so the call comes 'we must teach them to do that before they are 11, by adding more to the pre-11 curriculum'. However, what happens is that much of what children learn they learn 'too young' - when they don't 'need' it, when it isn't part of their everyday experience, when it is a 'trick' rather than something done with real understanding. As a result, they don't retain that learning for any longer than the next test, and then it is rapidly forgotten.

If instead we concentrate on teaching 'once and once only, but really thoroughly, and when it is appropriate', then it is much more likely that children will retain and use what they have been taught. I'm sure that I'm not the only teacher who has been teaching modal verbs to children who confuse there / they're / their; column subtraction to those who can't instantly subtract a single digit number from a teen number; subordinate clauses to those who don't reliably use full stops. And I know why that is - not because they haven't been taught those basic skills, but because teachers in every previous year have felt the pressure to 'move on through the curriculum, we've got so much to cover' rather than really, really embedding those basic skills and making them important, not the 'shiny new extra stuff'.

I didn't have a formal science lesson in primary school. Nature study, yes lots. Class caterpillars? Of course. Nature walks, visits, plenty of time to experiment with torches and mirrors and sand and water. But not a single lesson called 'science'. 4 years later, I took 3 Science O-levels - because when I was formally taught Science, I had lots of basic practical awareness of the world around me, a great curiosity about it, and was also of an age and skills level to be taught all the concepts properly, formally and, where necessary, mathematically.

I do think by 'emptying out' the primary curriculum, and teaching things 'right first time so we never have to revisit them' and at an appropriate age, children's retention of the really key aspects will be hugely improved, and will become really embedded so they won't 'hit a high point in Y6' for the test and then be completely forgotten in the course of secondary school.

ChalkHearts · 13/02/2016 20:39

But progress 8 isn't compulsory. School could say he doesn't have to sit history. They chose not to.

teacherwith2kids · 13/02/2016 20:41

"The problem is that the kind of teaching you have to do to get kids to milestones they aren't ready for is the kind that puts them off learning for life."

^^
This. Yes, absolutely.

ChalkHearts · 13/02/2016 20:42

Teacher - I agree.

spanieleyes · 13/02/2016 20:43

teacherwith2kids for Education Secretary!!!

Feenie · 13/02/2016 20:44

I bet she would answer a times table question Grin

TeenAndTween · 13/02/2016 20:45

I agree too teacher .

I wish my DD could have dropped a year in reception. Then she would have been at the right maturity throughout primary instead of always being a bit young for what she was being asked to do. No chance of arguing for it though as she is actually an autumn birthday.

PennyPebbles · 13/02/2016 20:45

Progress 8 is the compulsory measure of school performance. SLT would have to be brave or suicidal to risk falling below the floor target. They are neither. Spineless? Maybe.

The emphasis on academic subjects for all is failing our children.

teacherwith2kids · 13/02/2016 20:49

What is really interesting is that in countries which perform very highly in PISA rankings, a lot of Maths teaching in particular follows this kind of model.

A couple of years may be spent learning all the addition / subtraction facts for numbers up to 20 - 1+1 = 2, 2-1=1.... 9+8 = 17, 17-9 = 8 etc... but once they are learned, they never need to be re-learned. We might spend time on the bonds to 10, but not usually the rest, and then move hurriedly on to times tables to 'keep up with the curriculum'.

A whole series of lessons may cover 'exchanging between tens and 1s in column subtraction', where we might have a week of lessons on column subtraction as a whole...

LogicalTest · 13/02/2016 20:51

I'm a teacher and am afraid I think you sound as though you are in a school that has not embedded the changes well. You're right, and let's not go into the complexities of why, but most year six children will come out as 'working towards' this year. BUT if you SLT have done their job properly, the parents will know this and understand it. They will realise that every child in year six in England will be in the same boat and both the school and the parents will ensure their children feel like the complete superstars that they are. The new curriculum is designed to stretch and challenge and to raise standards. It's not ideal but it did have to be implemented at some point-I'm glad the bar is being raised.

Feenie · 13/02/2016 20:54

Are you Nicky Morgan a KS2 teacher, Logical Test?

leccybill · 13/02/2016 20:54

I'm so angry about this situation. I'm angry about a government I didn't vote for, bringing in an elitist curriculum which does not suit or cater for the masses.

I'm angry that as parents, we just want our children to do their best and not worry about it. And yet this is completely at odds with how the government demand that teachers push and push.

I want to say to my child 'I am happy for you to just try your best. Please do not worry. I don't care about SATs results and not should you'.

I want to say to her teacher 'You have brought fun and joy to my child's experience of school this year. You have nurtured her, cared about her, brought her out of her shell and praised every bit of progress she has made.'

My child's teacher probably wants to say to me 'I don't care about SATs either - I just want to bring out the best in your child and makes sure she enjoys school - Ofsted and league tables can get to fuck'

And yet we all have to bullshit each other and pretend we care about SATs and we are doing everything we can to get those results. When none of us in the process actually gives a shit. It's fucking obscene.

Highsteaks · 13/02/2016 20:55

teacherwith2kids you have nailed it. Just teaching more and more stuff at a younger and younger age is not going to improve standards.

teacherwith2kids · 13/02/2016 20:57

Penny, I know of a a head who was in a tough school, which produced results lower than the floor target (unsurprisingly, because over 50% of their intake was Level 3 or below on entry to Y7). Said head was principled and brave enough not to play games to 'massage' the results, but did what they thought was best for the individual children, and then stood up to defend their policy when Ofsted came

Their reward? To be screamed at and spat in the face by the lead Ofsted inspector (and of course have no recourse to complaints, because it would be said that it was being made up as an attempt to keep the school out of special measures). To make themselves critically ill through stress, and to never work as a head again - in fact to be very, very lucky to be alive.

Spinelessness or near-death? Most people would choose the former.

LogicalTest · 13/02/2016 20:57

Hi Feenie, yes I am now. I taught secondary maths for about ten years then went to primary and have taught year six for five years, this is my sixth. Definitely not Nicky Morgan although do think she's an improvement on her predecessor.....

Feenie · 13/02/2016 20:59

I would RTFT if I were you, LogicalTest.

IceBeing · 13/02/2016 21:01

teacherwithtwokids I agree with everything you said and am so glad to hear that message being spoken loud and proud by teachers.

Hibbityblob · 13/02/2016 21:03

Teacher that is exactly what schools should be doing. My ds was always young for his age, started year 1 unable to read or write. Terrible knowledge of phonics. Instead of focusing on this he was dragged on through the next levels without understanding the basics. The teacher fobbed off my concerns until she wanted my help to scrape him through the phonics test (and I WAS already helping at home - I just thought he needed extra help in school too). He's now getting pulled along with the rest of year 2 totally out of his depth and I've been told he won't meet his year 2 targets. He works sooo hard at home with me and seems to make jumps in reading and writing if we work extra hard at home. But I don't think I can magically fill his head with spellings by the end of the year, his handwriting is worse than his four year old brother's and he thinks he is stupid. Which he isn't, he just seems to have to work ten times harder than everyone else. Grrr.

IceBeing · 13/02/2016 21:04

freenie I would actually hold kids back at aged 7 rather than 11...or at reception if they aren't ready to jump into formal education.

I agree 11 would be a bad moment, although if the idea of passing a year before moving on was embedded then there isn't much shame in it.

We have a very odd idea about speediness in education being a good thing in this country. Many places (that out perform the UK) have a concept that what matters is how well you learned something rather than how quickly.

In other cultures going back over stuff and getting it properly nailed down is respected rather than being seen as a sign of weakness....

LogicalTest · 13/02/2016 21:04

I have read the thread Feenie? I don't share the majority view on this one but that's presumably ok isn't it?

IceBeing · 13/02/2016 21:06

hibberty are you in a position to take him out of school for a year? It is totally ridiculous that we push kids though getting further behind and losing their confidence when they could be succeeding just fine if they repeated/waited a year.

PennyPebbles · 13/02/2016 21:06

It is all going to hell in a handcart and these days I come home and cry too because the GCSE is getting harder and I have children that can't even read the questions.

Education and health not 'fit for purpose'? Lovely chance to privatise both even further. There are none so blind as those who will not see what this government is doing to public services.