My Ds has brought this poem home from school and been told to learn it. Please come and give me your thoughts on wether I should speak to the school.

[MTPurse]

As the title says, Ds has came home from school today with a Poem to learn, He has to learn it to be read out between a group of them(apparently he was chosen to read it as he is good at drama/being dramatic).

This is all I know, I have no other info on what it is about and why he has to learn it yet

Now I am not into poetry at all so maybe I just don't 'get it' but I really think this is completely unsuitable for Children due to the context. I am not a strict parent at all but Guns , Knives, Swords and Violence have no part in my family life and I will not allow my ds to play cod and stuff like that, in fact we have had numerous arguments about this.

Personally, I get the humour in it and think it would be fine on a staffroom wall but aibu to think it is not suitable for children?

Here is the poem:

The Lesson

Chaos ruled OK in the classroom
as bravely the teacher walked in
the nooligans ignored him
his voice was lost in the din

'The theme for today is violence
and homework will be set
I'm going to teach you a lesson
one that you'll never forget'

He picked on a boy who was shouting
and throttled him then and there
then garrotted the girl behind him
(the one with grotty hair)

Then sword in hand he hacked his way
between the chattering rows
'First come, first severed' he declared
'fingers, feet or toes'

He threw the sword at a latecomer
it struck with deadly aim
then pulling out a shotgun
he continued with his game

The first blast cleared the backrow
(where those who skive hang out)
they collapsed like rubber dinghies
when the plug's pulled out

'Please may I leave the room sir? '
a trembling vandal enquired
'Of course you may' said teacher
put the gun to his temple and fired

The Head popped a head round the doorway
to see why a din was being made
nodded understandingly
then tossed in a grenade

And when the ammo was well spent
with blood on every chair
Silence shuffled forward
with its hands up in the air

The teacher surveyed the carnage
the dying and the dead
He waggled a finger severely
'Now let that be a lesson' he said

Roger McGough :

Ah, so you didn't read or understand what people had said previously. I see.

I know a little about poetry. I
My ds is 13 but I'd be up in arms (😊) if he came home from school with this. School shootings resonating painfully when I read it.

I don't mind Red Riding Hood pulling a pistol from her knickers (ds loves that one) but this I found this vile and sickening.

Like I say I get a bit of poetry but I don't get this. If I'm not getting the satire how will a primary school child?

YANBU

I really don't think that I should go further into any more of the atrocities in Shakespeare's works as there are so many of them that I haven't time. And sadly, suggesting that none of them happen today is just not the case.

No-one is disrespecting anyone's family tragedy by reading detective novels, watching TV dramas, cartoons, spoofs and send ups that use dark humour. Its is nonsense to suggest that.

And no-one is laughing at this, either. You say you are thinking about Dunblanemum and her feelings, even though the poem has nothing to do with a school intruder. Well I am thinking about the teacher who taught a pretty innocent sort of lesson using a poem that teachers have been using for years and is being ridiculously, illogically and pretty nastily pilloried for it. I don't find that even slightly funny.

*wishihadacat - the fact that this poem has been a classroom staple in an era of dumbing down might be a good reason to revisit whether or not it is appropriate?

You are thinking about the teacher who is being ridiculously, illogically and pretty nastily pilloried for teaching it?

You mean the teacher in the article from nine years ago? I didn't see him being ridiculously, illogically and pretty nastily pilloried, but if you say so.
Still, I imagine he's got over it now.

This is the first time I've read it, no context or familiarity from school days. (School elsewhere)

It is worth questioning whether it should stay, except for the opposite reason of dumbing down.

Hahaha!! I think you need a new thread for that elephant you tried to drag in there.

I am stunned at this thread. The irony is so obvious to me its practically wearing a hat and tap dancing. My DD is 13 and year 9 and remembers it. I read this poem with a fresh pair of eyes as it was written at the point I left school so it isn't something I was familiar with as a child. I think sometimes we have to trust teachers to get on with the job they've been trained to do. Having said that, it is probably more suited to secondary school children. But there is merit in the poem. I have worked in primary schools for a good few years now and done a lot of midday work. There is always a cohort of chikdren, mainly boys play shooting games, fighting games, pretend to kill each other as part of their play. Even the quiet ones. In my opinion it's how they process and make sense of the world.

Hilarious that those saying "oh it's ironic, don't you get it....but it should not be primary level". Spectacularly missing the point that this poem is being taught to children at primary and that's what we are objecting to.

Teach this poem to 14 year olds and a terrific debate about irony, violence, satire, authorial intention will ensue. Of course!

Read it alongside this one

Nooligan
by Roger McGough
I’m a nooligan
dont give a toss
in our class
I’m the boss
(well, one of them)

I’m a nooligan
got a nard ‘ead
step out of line
and youre dead
(well, bleedin)

I’m a nooligan
I spray me name
all over town
footballs me game
(well, watchin)

I’m a nooligan
violence is fun
gonna be a nassassin
or a hired gun
(well, a soldier)

I think the context of the poem is very important. I wouldn't expect a teacher just to give the poem to a class and leave it at that. A good teacher should be able to teach it in a way that generate discussion and doesn't scare anybody. It's not always easy to predict what children will be scared of at that age. As an example, when I was at primary school I was very scared of meteors. When my teacher explained that they are very unlikely to fall on your head my fears went away .

Undeux - I thought it shouldn't be taught to primary because they may take it too literally and not get the irony - although now I realise that applied to some adults too!

Most of us think secondary say 14+ would be more appropriate and balance it with one about peace and love perhaps too. There is more than enough killing on the planet although I accept that plenty of teachers probably fantasise about killing their worst pupils just as many pupils fantasise about blowing up their school.

I think the tears from your husband are wasted unless he realises and takes responsibility for why he flirts with OW.He has an issue - maybe its needing to have ego stoked, being in the chasing role, or just sees marriage as no commitment. If you take him back without him truly knowing why he does this (and now to address the underlying need) he will repeat it.
It's like an alcoholic who promises to give up drinking but without the therapy he's unlikely to succeed.A sorry, I won't do it again are just empty words.

You are actually in the early stages of a marriage, not even through the 7year itch, so your future is not looking too good if he can be unfaithful so early on.

Undeux, I've followed the thread from the start and most of those objecting seem to be objecting to the poem being taught in schools at all. Not just at primary level which you said. And clearly those who were taught it at school have nothing but fond memories of The Lesson from what others have said on this thread. That to me speaks volumes about the power of this poem to children and the merit in including it in schools.

No they weren't. The vast majority of people said it was inappropriate for primary school children.

Well the prize for most spectacularly missing the point goes to newname99 in this case I think!

Dunblanemum :(
I can't imagine your pain, but I can imagine reading that poem would have brought it sharply into focus again. Love to you. x

bearleft

I think you are missing the point in that people who read this poem as children in the 70s and 80s and loved it were reading in context. A context where the satire is clear.

I had never even heard of a school
Massacre when I was at school.

Sadly, with terrorists targeting schools, lunatics gunning down children in schools, school intruder drills and the like, that's just not the case for our children.

I'm struck here by the mention of school massacres happening all the time. Thankfully not here in the UK though. Do many Yr 5 know about the US ones? I wonder how they feel about it in light of those. As a teacher I'd probably be interested.

Is Roger still about? Would be great to ask him. There's a few in You Tell Me written with Michael Rosen that I'm less keen on sharing with my own son, but it is a great collection of poems for kids. Perhaps next time Mr Rosen is on here it would be a good topic to bring up about how times have changed and and poetry and whether they wrote stuff back then that couldn't be included in the book as parents would've complained.

I agree that it has dated and the author couldn't have envisaged the future at the time it was written. I had written another post to that effect but it disappeared. I am acutely aware that there are parents who find this poem distressing. But many, many posters have missed the point of the poem also. It's intention is not to distress but engage. Children enjoy the dark and macabre, it has been used in childrens literature, poems and songs for centuries. The bible is full of violence. Should we not teach that in schools? I am not trying to be glib or clever. But there are countless examples of cruelty and darkness in childrens literature and stories. Children need to be exposed to that to learn to manage their fears and talk about what distresses them. And the over the top bonkersness of this poem in my humble opinion achieves that.

Agree with undeux. Satire in the 80s, too real in the 2010s. Back then this clearly never happened. Now it does all around the world. Back then it was obvious dark humour. Today it describes what happens to some children and so the satire is lost.

But for older dc would create a great debate...

I will freely admit to not being a poetry lover, unless you count song lyrics, so can someone please explain the anti-violence message to me because I'm missing it. Genuine question, I'd like to understand this poem better.