To think the education system is failing our children re bullying

[Dollymixtureyumyum]

Everything I come on mumsnet there is always a thread about someone's child being bullied, really awful stuff with can damage a kid for years to come.

Also plenty of threads about schools doing nothing or very little, there almost seems to be a culture of victim blaming where the victim ends up having to move schools or be home educated. It's just sickening
Aibu to think in this day and age bullying should be jumped on and sorted out straight away.
Also just wondering if anyone has had any postive stories of when a school had delt with bulling really well and stopped it.
I was bullied and the school did nothing about it in fact the headteachers words were "bulling doesn't happen in my school"
I just fear for my DS to know that bulling seems to be as bad as ever

QueenStreaky both me and ds2 have experienced this. It's fucking demoralising and puts you off interacting with anybody at all.

I don't know what's the matter with people that they would treat friends like that

Corporal punishment was abolished while I was at school. I was bullied daily throughout Juniors (KS2) by a boy in my class. I saw people being given the pump.

Would I advocate the boy who bullied me being beaten by an adult as a punishment? No.

DD was bullied at primary school. I wouldn't want her perpetrators being physically punished either.

Adults using corporal punishment on children is another form of bullying.

It's horrible hidden, and another dimension to relationship-building that parents of children with SN have to tackle. Schools should be working with us on this but in practice most make it more difficult, and as we've repeatedly noted here, resort to victim-blaming because they have limited powers to deal with the problem at source. Like it's not hard enough for children with SN to interact .

I know Queen I feel as though all I'm teaching ds2 is that people aren't to be trusted and it's best to protect yourself by keeping your defences up until you're absolutely convinced that the person is okay. What a lesson to have to learn. Even I had a few friends when I was at school, whereas the kids now all seem to be vicious little sods who spend their time talking about COD, porn and swearing - and this is in a 'good school' in year 6 He just sticks to playing online with a few people now.

Kids ain't what they used to be. We all rubbed along pretty well and there was no bullying in primary that I ever saw. They must be learning it from their parents because adults seem to be getting worse too.

I think it's the structure of schooling that's the problem. 30 odd children born within the same year group in one classroom for 7 years. Personally, I think the Montessori structure of vertical learning groups provides more scope for peer modelling and real personal responsibility for children.

It doesn't. It puts the victim in a vulnerable position yet again. Pouring their heart out to the bully while the bully gets to hear exactly how shit try make the victim feel. Ime, the bully continues as they know they have that power to make a person feel shit.

Well it works if the bully has empathy but just took a wrong turn as children do. If the child doesnt care it won't and they are all different.

The biggest issue with bullying ime is that 70% of the time it isn't as simple as bully=bad horror child victim=totally blameless. Once the teacher starts investigating 2 way stuff often comes out which makes it much harder to deal with. Make sure that dc being bullied tell the full story including anything that they've done right at the start. That way when the bully complains about being hit back the teacher is just poor you.

I must admit I think dd's school has prevention strategies that encourage assertiveness which are brilliant. If she has issues we have always so far been able to put a plan into place for her to deal with it herself.

Yanbu

Bullying is horrible I agree and I really feel for anyone who has a DC going through this. However I honestly believe the recognition of different forms of bullying and the will to address it is better now then it was when I was at school.

In the 70s IME only very obvious physical bullying was recognised and acted on. The nasty insidious verbal bullying that destroys your confidence bit by bit was just dismissed and ignored. I remember thinking how much easier it would be if the bitches just hit you because at least there would be something tangible to complain about that might be taken seriously, whereas saying "Oh she was really mean to me" would be dismissed and ignored.

I think most schools these days realise that this form of bullying can be just as damaging. At DDs schools I think they genuinely did try to tackle this. From the very start of reception they were asked after every play if everyone was happy and had anything had happened to make them unhappy. The culture they tried to instill was that it was ok to say if something had upset you.

No doubt it wasn't perfect. But I did feel both her schools had an awareness of the issue and a willingness to get involved when a problem was identified that was in no way present in my own schooldays

I was bullied and victim blamed when i was at high school.

Not having DC myself i thought things must have improved in recent years....until a few years ago when i was watching Educating Yorkshire and a young lad called Jack who was being bullied was made to attend anger management sessions for standing up to the bully.

I was heartened to see Twitter and MN light up at the time saying how bloody unfair it was.

Yes, I recently caught up on Educating Yorkshire, that poor boy Did the bullies have to attend anger management? No. Weasel words - 'we are dealing with it'.

The difference is that years ago, the parent would be called up to the school, told their child was a bully, and the parent would take the child home and read them the riot act. There were the possibilities of further sanctions - detentions, suspensions, expulsion. Now, if you tell a parent that their child is bullying another, you either get every excuse, told that you can't stifle their natural leadership, or the parent threatens to wait for you in the carpark and show you what real bullying is (yes, I've had that said to me).

Well it works if the bully has empathy but just took a wrong turn as children do. If the child doesnt care it won't and they are all different.

I have never known it work. A bully knows they are trying to upset and hurts someone in 99% of cases.

Saying it's often a 2 way street, is kind of victim blaming? They have played some part in it?

To be perfectly honest when your dd in is hospital with a broken nose, you don't give a shit about the background of the boy that did it. Well I don't. 6 years of shit and 'we need to understand him' didn't do anything.

I, of course, feel sorry for kids who have it tough (for whatever reason). However I do not think that should change the punishment.

They should be worked with, but punished too.

I think 'inclusion' has become and almost negative thing. While dds bully was waiting to be charged his mother wanted him back in the small classroom with her. Despite the police saying he shouldn't be allowed near her.

As the school loved to say it was 'inclusive' the head teacher argued it would be inclusion if they taught him away from his class. So I threatened to remove dd and complain to the council as they were excluding her, forcing her to be in a classroom with someone who assaulted her and threatened to do it again.

But apparently inclusion doesn't 'work like that'. Schools seem to use the word inclusion as and when it suits.

I have zero faith in school anti-bullying policies. When my DD was badly bullied at primary school the attitude was that I was a bit of a troublemaker for complaining, and they brushed off every concern I had, whilst DD was suffering. It took a massive fuss from me to get them to even acknowledge whaat was happening and when they did, they moved my DD from class not him. The bullying continued however and only when her dad confronted the bully's parents at school gates, did it stop completely. Obviously not the done thing but schools drive you to the end of your tether, and I've known other parents with children who were bullied, and gone through the same inaction.

Policies are just lip-service that sounds pretty on paper. Bullying is out of hand and will stay that way until school staff put children before making schools sound lovely. A 9 year old boy hung himself at DDs school, how shit is that. I found out 2 years after theyd started, after seeing a vigil outside the school. If Id known Id never have sent them there, but I had only just moved to area and had no inkling

My niece is at school in another part of London and has just transferred to a different primary school after a boy kept following her and touching her. Same again, nothing done about it the attitude was that her mum was making a fuss, all got out of hand with parents involved. My niece is happier where she is but obviously not the same girl she was.

I hate the way so often children don't really matter in school system here but there is so much pretence that they do. It seems results and what "looks good" trumps all

My friend who is a former policeofficer tells her son that he must NEVER hit anyone, unless they hit him first.

Saying it's often a 2 way street, is kind of victim blaming? They have played some part in it?

No it isn't victim blaming but it makes it hard for teachers to deal with if the victim only gives half the story. If they tell the truth then it can be sorted but they often miss the bit out where they took their older brother round to threaten them the night before or they punched them on the nose. Victim blaming , but teachers need the full.

And sometimes it does work making them face up to it. Not all 'bullies' are entirely bad.

DS was bullied to the extent that I had to remove him.

The school "addressed" the issue - which meant doing nothing. The trouble is as an earlier poster said, bulling behaviour is everywhere - and always has been to a greater or lesser extent. (Work, armed forces, families, streets, local politics, even on MN).

It is usually rewarded too. That is the problem. The bullies get the best jobs, the best positions; what they want. Bullying works. Unless we address the much deeper issues in society it is hard to believe that schools will ever really be able to conquer it.

To be fair MN does handle it pretty well but there are no spoils to be had. Intense competition makes it worse.

tobysmum so are you saying most people who say try are being bullied actually did something to cause it?

Tobys. With much respect are you on glue.
There's no 2 way street 6 or 1 half a dozen of the other with bullying. No one deseves to be bullied and there is no excuse for doing it and making someone's life a nightmare and to the victim. It is a nightmare. Can you imagine how much these poor children dread going to school.
Are you aware of the tragic suicides caused by wicked cunting bullies.

DFOD Tobys.
Kids who have a suitably scary older sibling, uncle etc who would go round to the bully's house and threaten them...do not get bullied.
It is more usual that the victim gets bullied for years and is too unassertive/ nice/ sensitive/ intimidated to fight back, and one day finally snaps. They are not the problem. They are just showing a normal human reaction to bullying. I hate that schools then see this as 'six of one, half a dozen of the other'.
I was bullied as a DC. I went through this scenario, being told off myself for daring to react, or was told that 'it's just normal teasing, don't be so oversensitive'. When I lived with verbal attacks every fucking day that destroyed my self-esteem. It still affects me as an adult.

Yes I agree op.

I would like to know what happens to the bully?
I mean do the parents get called in and all told to work together to stop it? Like removal of tech, or phone, or whatever?

Not all bullies come from problematic homes, I personally know of a few from very good homes with loving parents but parents who - I have seen turn a blind eye to the childs appalling behaviour.

what does the school do with the parents to work on the bullies behaviour, why is all the emphasis on the victim to sort out the bullies problems.

why are teachers so dismissive of play ground arguments, when parents themselves are starting to get concerned?

I have now learned through personal experience and from others, there is no messing round and waiting when a child is being traumatized in the school.

I mean do the parents get called in and all told to work together to stop it? Like removal of tech, or phone, or whatever?

You can call parents in, but you can't force them to follow through on any sanctions.

Until teachers hands are untied and they are allowed to come down hard with real sanctions against bullies, and that is followed up with support from parents, then it is really hard for anything to be done.

Please don't think that these conversations don't go on in the school staff room and teachers are just as frustrated as parents are. Last year I didn't have a morning tea or lunch break for the whole year so that I could shadow a bully so that I could intervene, but the worst I could really do is tell them to move away and go play elsewhere because their parent thinks the sun shines out of the arse and threatened physical violence against me every time I told their precious off. Sadly, bullying still happened at the after school care program (which is run by an outside organisation), so the parent of the bullied child still complained that we were doing nothing.

I work in a school and also have three children of my own.

I have dealt with bullying on both sides and I know, from both sides, that as a parent you are not allowed to know what sanctions have been put in place against another child. It comes under safeguarding and any member of staff that willingly discloses that information to a parent should be reported to Ofsted.

Which goes against the principle that justice should be seen to be done, and also reinforces the impression that only troublemakers have rights.

I would be very interested to know more about assertiveness strategies, as I would like to suggest them to my DDs' school. One of my DDs is diagnosed with high functioning autism. When she started school, she was pretty good at asserting herself despite this. She find WITS much harder. Sadly, the school has trained the assertiveness out of her.

Learning to deal with overbearing people is an incredibly useful life skill. We should be teaching it to our kids, and schools should help.