to stop my daughter going to the party?

[SharingMichelle]

Daughter is 9.

For most of the past 2 years she has been friends with a group of girls who are very mean, always preoccupied with who's speaking to who, who likes who, passing messages about not speaking to each other. Horrid and silly and exhausting. Just to be clear, my daughter is every bit as bad as the others. She's not a leader, but she'll follow anyone and be dreadful and thoughtlessly mean if she thinks it will win approval from the popular girls.

I was always there to talk to, and to gently advise throughout all this. Dd is lacking in confidence (not an excuse) and I do try to encourage her to feel more sure of herself, and to do the right thing.

A couple of months ago it reached a point where she was just so unhappy and anxious and she decided to not be friends with them any more. She hung her bag on a different peg in the hall and they have never spoken to her since.

She mostly reads by herself at breaktime, though she does have a friendship with a girl called T. She is not massively keen on T, but they have playdates, and have books in common.

Enter P. P is new to the school and suddenly my daughter and P are best friends. I was under the impression that DD, P and T all spent break and lunch times together.

Now it's P's birthday party tomorrow and I needed some info about something so messaged T's mum asking her (dd had told me that T was going). Turns out that T is not invited to the party and that my dd and P have been whispering about it and leaving T out all week and giggling at her. Ugh. I'm so disappointed with dd.

I was to ask for her version of events, and if it's true I'm not going to let her go to P's party. What do you think? What would you do?

If there is a history of this sort of behaviour in the school. T is probably sensitive to it and may have interpreted your child and P's behaviour as mean when they might just have been talking about the party and giggling together rather than at T.
I think you need to talk to your daughter and get the full story.
I'm inclined not to use parties as punishment as it will upset more people than just your daughter.

I suppose it depends how these "playdates" (god I loathe that word!!!) were organised. Is it you and T's mum sorting it between you, or are T and your daughter arranging it between them?

(I know they're only 9 but if you all live close by they could be going back to T's house after school independently/with parental permission.)

If T and your daughter are only hanging out outside school because you've organised it (and they get on "ok"), then TBH their friendship is probably not a goer. It's not a crime or bullying to hang out with one ok-ish friend more until another, better friend comes along IMO. It may not be very nice but it's very normal behaviour isn't it? What's the alternative? Keep pretending to really like someone when you'd rather be with someone else? We don't do that as adults and I really don't see why we should hold 9 year olds to a higher standard. Choosing friends is her right.

As I say - only keep her away if someone independent says she has been behaving in a bullying way to T. But if they've been cooking up their own playdates, it does sound as if their friendship is fine really and T is just peeved about having to hear about a party she's not going to.

I think your daughter is trying out the behaviour that she's been the victim of. Sadly that's often how the dynamics play out in classrooms and it's why parents and schools need to work on teaching assertiveness, developing emotional intelligence and talk with their children about how to manage challenging situations - easy to say and difficult to do.
It's hard to stand back and watch our children negotiate these minefields but I think you do need to let her manage her friendships. But you're also right to call her out on her behaviour. Given her history with the other group and the massive courage it must have taken to distance herself from them, I'd hesitate before punishing her by stopping her go to a new friend's party. But I would, while pointing out the unkindness of her behaviour to T, try to back away a bit and let her negotiate her own friendships.

OP, you're definitely being a good mum and clearly trying to make sure that DD learns about others' feelings and does not become a bully. I'm not sure I'd punish DD by not letting her go to the party though. She's obviously been subjected to bullying herself previously and having a hard time making new friends, so I'm inclined to think that she needs more practice at playing with others and a party (presumably with other children there as well as P and DD so new people to meet etc) could be good for her. Like some other posters I'm concerned that it's just T/T's parents word against DD. Perhaps as some others have suggested T and her parents are miffed that she's ot invited to the party? More likely I'd say DD and P have been excited about the party and haven't been as sensitive as they might about the fact that T's not invited.

I'd let her go, but have ongoing discussions with her about what bullying is etc (sure you'll be doing this already). Perhaps get her some books that deal with the subject- I remember my DD having some when she was younger but can't remember what they were called.

To put these comments in context my DD had problems with friendship groups and bullies at a similar age and found herself very unhappy and without friends at school. Another girl (call her X) seemed to take her under her wing after a while and all was happy- until my DD started having independent friendships with others in the group. X's mum reported lots of incidents to me where apparently my DD had been unkind to X and like OP I dealt with this. It was only when DD started coming home from school in tears that I spoke to school and other children/parents and found out that X had in fact been quite nasty to DD for a while and had a history of bullying.

Could you perhaps speak to school about the whole situation (including the fact that your DD has few friends) and see if they can do something with the class about others' feelings etc.

I feel for you- it's really hard dealing with pre-teen friendships

OP please don't beat yourself up over what's happening,any of us could be the best parent in the world and a child of ours could do the same and you sound like your a great Mum.

With your daughter following the crowd it can be really hard for even adults sometimes to do the right thing and stand out against the crowd.But it a really good idea if you can teach and encourage your child to do it whilst she's still quite young.

With your DD it sounds like her self confidence is quite low(which can happen to any of us at any age)after school activities can be a really good way to help your daughter raise her own self esteem.With the activities she could make friends from outside of her school and she'd be learning something new which can do wonders for your confidence.

If you have a look online as well OP there are lots of sites and charity's that give tips on how to help your child build they're self esteem and confidence up there are also one's that go through different types of scenarios and show what kinds of different outcomes could be reached just by making a different decision or doing something differently.

Also does your DD's school have a mentoring scheme or a child counsellor?If they do they can be really helpful in situations like this and believe me they'll have seen it all before and in some cases the situations they've managed before will be alot worse sadly.

I've had alot of experience of these situations before,when I was a child myself,with my own 5DC and when I used to work with children in different schools.

The most awful part of this is that she's been on play dates with T and then laughed at T in school.

Rather than make her miss P's party, I'd put a ban on her playing at T's house for the rest of the term. When you are being bullied, it feels so terrible to think you have made progress when on a play date and then get laughed at the next day. The bully has been in your space (I'm not putting this well but the fact they've been welcomed into your house makes the laughing hurt far more)

I'd also monitor whether she continues this behaviour and if yes, issue punishments.

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies. I managed to read them on my phone but couldn't post until now. It was really helpful reading everyone's thoughts.

Interesting that there is a fairly even split between people who think dd has behaved badly and should face consequences, and people who think I'm over involved and need to back off. I have that exact argument with myself!!

Regarding the playdates with T; I didn't really organise them. She was invited (text from T's mum to me), I asked her if she would like to go, she said yes, so she went. It's the same way all her social arrangements are made, ie through me, but only if it's something she wants to do. Fairly age appropriate I think?

I completely agree with those who say that the whispering and giggling is the worst of it all, and the bit that is problematic.

Aaaaaanyway... I spoke to dd first thing this morning. I told her what I'd been told and asked her if it was true. She said it was. I asked her what she thought should happen next. She suggested that she should apologise to T, and that she shouldn't be allowed to go to the party.

She said, though, that she genuinely thought that T was invited to the party (I do believe her - it was she who suggested calling T's mum to check details). She believed that all the girls were going to the party, but only she was invited to sleep over, and when she and P had been "talking in private" (whispering and giggling) it was because they were talking about the sleepover bit. She did agree that T would have felt pretty bad about it and realises it was pretty crappy of her and P.

She has apologised to T. T has said it's okay, but don't do it again.
Dd says that P didn't really seem to understand why T felt bad.
T wasn't invited to the party, but neither was P invited to T's 2 weeks ago. I guess those two don't really get on, but that's okay and none of my business!!

And I let her go to the party in the end.

Gosh, that was long. I don't suppose anyone is all that interested, but I thought it was only polite to put a follow-up after so many people were kind enough to give their opinions.

I was interested Sharing,it sounds like you did really well and it's a good sign that your DD said sorry and suggested that she missed out on the party her self not many children that young would offer that up.