To wonder why no one is mentioning Bernie Sanders' great showing in Iowa?

[PitilessYank]

I have seen some threads recently about the US presidential election, in particular expressing horror at the popularity of Donald Trump, whom many Americans in fact loathe. It makes me wonder if MN users only enjoy posting negative things about US politics, and prefer to ignore the positive, like the tremendous showing of Bernie Sanders yesterday in Iowa.

Do MN users enjoy a bit of Schadenfreude when it comes to US politics? Where is the praise for the good judgement of Iowans in rejecting Trump (relatively speaking) and showing support for the best presidential candidate in many years, Bernie Sanders??

I went off Clinton after I saw the comparison of how both Hilary and Bernie raised their funding. Like you said; so refreshing to see the money coming from 'normal' people

That's great, LionsLedge!

Well, Britain IS a socialist country, isn't it?

By American standards it is.

I live in a place that is very pro Bernie and people are very happy around here. He has to be very encouraged by this tremendous showing in Iowa .

I think US politics is becoing increasingly polarised, with the antics of theTea Partyers in their own way encouraging people to think beyond the boogeyman associations that socialism unfortunately has been saddled with. Events like Occupy, and movements like the 99% have also galvanised people and made them re-examine the idea that 'somewhere in the middle' is best. Citizens United has also had an impact.

I wonder if there is a generational thing going on here -- are there older people who would have seen the New Deal, and former Sixties liberals finally coming out of the woodwork along with millennials or whatever the latest generation is called? So few people vote in the US, it may be that entirely new cohorts are inspired to go out and vote just by the personality or the message at each election.

Seneca, I would go one further -- I think the Red Menace is still very much alive in the minds of many Americans. You see it in the attitude towards the Russian Federation and especially associated with President Putin. It's as if it's still 1982 in the minds of many.

I feel like young Americans are getting much more politically engaged. They get the shitty end of the stick in so many ways. For example, there's free medicare for older people in the USA, but the younger generation gets screwed.

Here's the list of campaign donations for Hilary and Bernie. It's amazing how much she has taken from morally dubious companies like Goldman Sachs.

The thing that always amazes me about the US is the blind spot Americans have about how much healthcare socialism does occur but they talk as if its all private and a US version of the NHS would be the end of the world.

Medicare: covers 48 million people providing health insurance for Americans aged 65 and older who have worked and paid into the system. It also provides health insurance to younger people with disabilities, end stage renal disease and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis.

Medicaid: covers about 0 million people and is a government insurance program for persons of all ages whose income and resources are insufficient to pay for health care.

Public service worker healthcare covers 22 million people and their families who are employed direct by Govt and have their healthcare paid for by the state.

Veterans Health Administration: covers 9 million ex service personnel.

I know some of this is means tested and co-pay but even so I know that if it were removed the entitled groups would be in uproar. The US citizen seems to like socialism when they benefit. I read that much of the 'veterans' lobby power is really about ensuring they don't lose their entitlement to Veterans Healthcare.

Medicaid: covers about 50 million people

BetaDad This is why I strongly disagree with Obamacare. Yesterday I finally got DS in to see the developmental pediatrician. The group do not accept any insurance. They do however accept all of the government programs including the public workers program. Our visit was $965. DH and I made just over $1 million last year so it's affordable but for a family with an income of $80k they don't qualify for any of these programs if working in the private sector and $965 is totally unaffordable, especially when already paying $6-10k a year in healthcare costs. It makes my blood boil that we have this inequality and Obamacare made it much worse for those in the private sector.

People are not stupid and my generation are saddled with huge debts from attending $50k/year colleges, needing to add another $100k in tuition to complete a masters. This is to get a job paying $100k a year. We have a huge pension problem looming. Anyone in the private sector is screwed and it looks like the public sector is going the same way too.

Trump and Sanders are he only candidates who are speaking from what they believe. The other candidates are all on funded mandates from others who want to continue to exploit people.

As for HC being a strong woman..... She is a weak little parasite. If that is what feminism looks like she can keep it. The woman is awful and I really hope she is not the first female president. There are other women in politics who are rising up and I think would be a better 'first' than her.

there's free medicare for older people in the USA

It's not free. I have Medicare. The basic coverage (Part A hospitalization) is "free" in the sense that there is no charge for it at this point in my life, but I have worked (and am still working, like a lot of over 65s) for more than 40 years paying into the system. To get full coverage, I pay an extra amount each month that is deducted from my social security pension and then I pay an additional amount for a supplement to pay for the 20 percent that Medicare does not cover. Medicare is a good program (and a single payer system) and cheaper for me than if I were buying insurance in the private sector, but it is by no means free.

Supermum and BetaDad-I always enjoy your posts. I think you are suggesting that there is a special government workers healthcare program? I work for the US Federal Government and what we have is the same as many other workers in the US-we and our employers split the cost of the purchase of a private health insurance plan. At my workplace we choose among three plans. A FT worker pays about $400 per month for a family plan, which is considered a relative bargain.

I expect that the US will move to a Single-Payer system, like Canada, and I would also love an NHS-style system. Single-payer will be achieved first.

There is no distinct government workers plan. We get the same insurance plans that anyone can buy into, in other words. That is a huge myth over here.

Good point, Pitiless. I think there are a lot of people, Americans included, who think that civilian government workers are covered in the same way that members of the armed forces are.

'Also, I do think, like Poulet, that MN can be harsh about the US. Sometimes we deserve it, but when I hear people making broad statements about the US I think it is borne of ignorance.'

Not wanting to derail but I did mean to respond to this yesterday evening Pitiless. There is undoubtedly some snootiness to things American on MN. Every Halloween there are threads started by people bemoaning the importation of 'awful' American traditions. The same people tend to get a bit snooty at people referring to Santa rather than Father Christmas.

I don't think it's malicious, it's just a bit small-minded. It's borne out of a Little Englander mentality, one that thinks American culture is a bit common (although I'm sure these Little Englanders are consumers of plenty of American pop culture themselves). But call it out when you see it as I can imagine it must get quite tedious.

pit $400 a month is a bargain for coverage for a family. My sister is paying $1000 a month for their family. My employer offers coverage for $950 a month for a family. Also you have to consider copays. I have quite a few friends working for the state of NJ, NY as well as the federal government. They pay far less in copays. The appointment I had yesterday would have cost $20 for my friends who have coverage from either the state of NY or NJ. That is considerably cheaper than $965.

Meanwhile I'm about to have a baby. Our copay per day in hospital is $500 and my friends working for the state have zero copay. I've also been working on setting up a better healthcare plan for DHs business now we have over 100 employees. We are self funding the program because the cost to cover 100 employees plus their families is over $350k a year. In additonal the copays are too high given the wages we pay.

I do get pissed off about MNs snootiness over baby showers. They are lovely and part of American culture in the same way Nov 5th is part of British culture. If you stand back and think about Nov 5th it's a very weird celebration.

It's only because they aren't our tradition Want2b, an import if you like, that people aren't sure they want to participate in but feel obliged to as they become more and more the norm. 5th Nov hasnt been exported to USA has it??

Anyway, I love Americans OP. Lim interested in their politics. Also we have a political situation of our own currently, which far too many people aren't interested in over here either!

I think unfortunately it's only the larger than life characters - with lots of money to spend on staging their campaigns and appearances - that make any impact in UK media.
We all like it simple I guess and you don't get simpler than Trump!
However I'd never in a million yrs vote for him. Bernie Sanders sounds a much better thing all round.

One of the reasons that government health care may be cheaper has to do with economies of scale and a larger risk pool. But the point is that the employee is bearing some of the cost; it's not all "free."

I know it has been pointed out many times regarding Halloween and Santa, but both of those traditions come from Scotland and Ireland and were imported to the US by settlers from those countries. And another one that comes up sometimes: the term "high school" originally comes from Scotland.

And I agree with Want2be about baby showers. The tradition comes from a "takes a village" notion about supporting new mothers. It's lovely, but based on MN threads, it's has been imported to the UK with some decidedly un-American aspects (you never host one for yourself; close family members should also not host.)

Hillary is in the pocket of the banks, see here who has donated the most to her campaign;

Seneca The government programs are heavily subsidized compared to the programs available to private programs. We are so thankful that we have the money/expat package to buy care for DS and that I work for a progressive employer where I have unlimited sick time for myself and my family.

Evil More to the point, HC sold herself a long time ago to the highest bidder. I understand all politicians need donations but have some self respect and go with donations from those whose views mesh with your own.

Want2bSpermum - please do correct me if I am wrong but I read while ago that the chief 'victims' of the US healthcare system as it stands are the hard working middle class. Not quite poor enough but not quite rich enough?

I do agree that the US Medicaid/Medicare system is not 'free' like the NHS and there is a significant co-pay element to a subsidised system. I don't imagine Bernie Sanders would introduce an NHS into the US but a fairer co-pay system I suspect would be welcomed by many people in the US - something like Canada perhaps.

Pitiless - yes again I realise US public service workers don't get free healthcare but as Want2bSpermum says it seems to be heavily subsidised.

There is a lot of socialism AND Govt intervention in a lot of areas of economic life in America. Just look at the way big business and Wall Street was bailed out during the financial crisis Straight out of the 1960/70s UK model of public ownership of the means of production. I think the US defence industry in particular is used as a covert way of diverting public funds to economically depressed areas.

The Bernie Sanders model of North American socialism might be to move the US to a Canadian model and I don't think that would be opposed by many people. I suspect the US senior citizens who already go across the border to buy pharmaceuticals would welcome it.

Beta For sure they are the victims. DH and his boss are working with HQ to set up a fund where the company donates to employees to cover their healthcare costs. One employee had a heart attack and his copay for the year was $15k. DH's boss paid the bill directly and then the IRS wanted it considered as income and taxed. The employee is almost 60 and makes about $65k a year here in Northern NJ, not the cheapest place to live. Yes, at the end of the year he would have gotten $8.5k back but he would have to wait 9 months to receive the funds plus the interest rate charged was over 10% because it is unsecured debt. DH's boss also negotiated the bill down to $9k because they were paying cash.

I will also say that there is huge amounts of socialism already here in the US. My son is in the early intervention program. It is amazing and exactly what the UK needs IMO. My son at age 3 transitions to the school board special needs team and they cover the cost of his therapy. DD attends preschool paid for by the taxpayer. It is an amazing program. The cost of the afterschool program is minimal at $800 for care from 7.30am - 8.30am and afterschool from 2.30pm - 6pm.

Personally I would like to see the preK program rolled out nationwide and I would like to see healthcare properly sorted out. Someone also needs to start talking about the pension problem and educational costs of college. State programs in NJ cost far too much for most residents and it is a similar situation in NY State.

I think Bernie Sanders is really exciting but I don't think he will be the next president. I wish he would be, in the same way that I would love to see JC win the next election in Britain. I would be personally worse off (probably) but I would really like to see a fairer society.