To ask what a 'natural approach to health and immunity' means

[Discopanda]

I'm part of a FB group for attachment parents where we arrange playdates, share interesting articles, ask questions. When a new member is added they introduce themselves, child's name and age and say a bit about themselves (group is private). One of the newest members has put in her blurb that they practice a 'natural approach to health and immunity', does that mean she's an anti-vaxxer? WIBU to ask her what it means?

People with a genuine reason not to vaxx do not describe themselves as per the OP

I'm not planning on vaccinating any further because my son reacts to vaccines but it wouldn't bother me and it wouldn't have occurred to me to tell anyone.

Thats different though.

I am not anti vac per se, but I am anti vac for DD, as she had a life threatening reaction to hers. I am also very careful with the others, youngest DD for example is not having the flu vax. However, oldest DD did have the cervical cancer vax (cant remember the name) but didnt have it at school in case she had a bad reaction. To me the risk was worth it, and she agreed.

But people who wont vaccinate "on principle" piss me right off because they are relying on everyone else to keep their kids safe! As a pp said, I bet she is ok with small pox being erradicated thanks to immunisation.

I have a friend who practises the natural approach to health and immunity and she DOES vaccinate her son.
However, we are not to mention he has been vaccinated, should the topic arise, among certain friends of hers who are non vaxxers because they want to be not because their children have medical issues.

I think that I have a natural approach to immunity in that I wont protect the kids from every bug going. Apart from anything else, once your second child comes along, you might as well try to hold back the sea. A toddler will pick up bugs and pass them on. So I do accept that its better for them to pick up bugs within the family than try to isolate them from everything and get have no natural immunity.

But that doesnt mean no vaccinations! I suspect that the people who say this have no real understanding of what they are doing or saying.

Apart from anything else, if they are relying on herd immunity to keep their children safe, thanks to others who thought the same way 10 years ago, there is no herd immunity anymore!

"there is no herd immunity anymore!"
To what?

I bet if zikka virus arrived in the uk people like this would be first in the queue to get a vaccine.

The other important thing for immunity is let children play outside and let them play in dirt, soil, dig the garden. There is a huge load of important research about these issues, not least letting them get vitamin D on their skin in summer too. I support all these things - the only one as a fairly natural parent I don't is I DO support vaccination. One reason I am just about never ill is because of the things I posted above on the thread. We really do need as a nation to look at how to help people's immune system. Study the research on the gut - our second brain.

Actually there was a BBC documentary on a few months' back about antibiotic overuse and superbugs and at the end they showed research that's being done to find new alternatives in soil, it was really interesting.

I bet if zikka virus arrived in the uk people like this would be first in the queue to get a vaccine.

If and when a vaccine is developed. They think it would be difficult because it would need to be tested on pregnant women. And that for most of the population, they show little to no symptons. I believe the current thought is that it's more effective to eradicate the mosquitoes.

Also the UK is too cold for the mosquito. However, southern europe, where lots of british families go on holiday, is not.

I follow Deo's philosophy. Eating well is the key to health imo.

However, I don't believe in it with religious fervour, like some blogs/articles I've read online. The idea that health can be created, through sheer force of will (or juicing/green smoothie-ing/raw food-ing/paleo-ing/vegan-ing/etc etc) and those who are not healthy are not "worthy" winds me up. Sometimes life just deals a bad hand. There isn't much you can do about it.

Bertha, I wouldn't be so sure. People tend to be quite wary about new vaccines - even if they are fully vaccinated. Many people chose not to get the swine flu vaccine for example.

I think women are even more cautious if they're pregnant. Iirc the average uptake of the WC jab in pregnant women is around 60%. It hadn't really be tested on pregnant women before.

I have no idea of the vaccine status of my friends children. Cos its none of my business.

I didn't have the whooping cough vaccine while pregnant. I tend to react to injections and i didn't feel comfortable risking that while pregnant.

So I'm not sure pregnant women would want a new vaccine!

Avoid. I certainly couldn't spend time with someone who free-rides on herd immunity and claims it as some kind of clean-living virtue. She's obviously thick and self-aggrandising.

If your kids are vaccinated though I don't see how it would affect you

You can still get the illness - depends on how effective the vaccine is. Had friend who's DC had measles despite MMR - to a locum to diagnose and first GP insisted wasn't possible.

Same GP ruled out hooping cough in a anther young baby till parents we so worried video it classic symptoms - few months later it was all over news that the vaccine had lost quiet a bit of effectiveness.

Plus there are young children who can't be vaccinated for very good reasons.

I met a man at University - studying a science subject - who was brought up in a obscure cult I'd never hear of before or after that he said was common in his area that refused to use medicine but prayed for God to make them better.

He insisted that it had cure him of a serious illness when he was a young boy. Some one asked what happens in case of burns - he rolled his eyes and said they'd call an ambulance and go to hospital - but they would pray and it would be that that cure the person . But he wouldn't take hay fever meds or pain killers for headaches. I remember because I couldn't grasp the logic.

So possible best to ask what they mean.

If your kids are vaccinated though I don't see how it would affect you

In addition to what lostinthewash said, there's also a macro effect in that the unvaccinated population, when stricken with an 'eradicated' disease, acts like a kind of laboratory for the disease to mutate, flourish, and eventually erode the efficacy of the vaccination.

The other important thing for immunity is let children play outside and let them play in dirt, soil, dig the garden. There is a huge load of important research about these issues, not least letting them get vitamin D on their skin in summer too.

I did all that and continue to do so - and bf for well over a year - still have a child with excema and asthma.

The asthma was triggered by a cold - possible a cold that was cause by a flu virus - apparently up to 30%of colds might be and in susceptible people it's possible they can trigger asthma. I've done everything possible to deal with the excema before that as well kept very detailed food diaries - the lot seems to be worse at set time of year so think it something in air / environment triggering it.

I'm not planning on vaccinating any further because my son reacts to vaccines but it wouldn't bother me and it wouldn't have occurred to me to tell anyone.

The fact that most of us do vaccinate our DC means that for people who can't, hopefully there is sufficient herd immunity that their DC will not come into contact with the diseases being vaccinated against.

It's something we don't just do for ourselves, and our own DC, but out of altruism for the whole of society.

One of my DDs is quite phobic of injections. Taking her is quite traumatic for both of us, and we have to go to a clinic, rather than having it done at school along with everyone else. But she accepts that it should be done, and the nurse who does it always questions her, I assume to establish Gillick competence, and then consent to the vaccination.

"In addition to what lostinthewash said, there's also a macro effect in that the unvaccinated population, when stricken with an 'eradicated' disease, acts like a kind of laboratory for the disease to mutate, flourish, and eventually erode the efficacy of the vaccination."

Can you link us to some papers about this please?

I don't know if anyo f you watched Call the Midwife a few weeks ago when the baby with thalidomide was born? Very sad. In that same year I was born and my mother had been offered thalidomide. Had she taken it I would probably have no legs or arms today. Becvause her general philosphy was if in doubt be natural I am now whole. I follow the same rules. that does not mean that either of us are anti doctors - many in my family are doctors; but in general if you can manage without pills and potions and just eat well and get outside and let children play in the dirt and avoid junk foods you can be healthier than otherwise. I took on holiday to Meixco last week the Perfect Health Diet and now remember why I stopped reading it a few years ago - full of science written by doctors so quite heavy going in places but it does have some interesting stuff on how many things we never thought were due to lack of immunity or due to spreading germs and inability to kill them are now so. The book could instead have said "eat whole foods, mostly plants" or even shorter - be wild.

Even the stuff in the papers about Lyme disease possibly spreading within a family, the ME research, the gut bacteria research and obesity, the link between depression and your gut health is interesting.
However I am not anti vac.

When the Spanish went to Mexico and that region it wasn't guns which killed people. It was new germs. When we lived in groups of 10, there was hardly anyone on the planet and we rarely met others we were pretty healthy and the main cause of death was falls from heights and things like that.

My point was not that you should ignore gut bacteria and healthy lifestyle choices but it can't protect you from everything.

I'm also against the arguments extension that is your fault when you get sick. I've had family tell us it's our fault our DC has asthma as if we'd raised them on a farm they wouldn't - actually it would have possible reduced their risks - but farm living wasn't a not option for us.

In fact despite some of their GP insisting eczema and asthma doesn't exists turns out all four of them either have hay fever, eczema or have sibling with asthma. Despite same up-bring - in fact child with asthma most likely to be found grubbing in the dirt only one of my DC has asthma.