To discount buying a house because of secondary schools (DC only 2!)?

[SweetSuz]

Would love some advice. We viewing 3 houses tomorrow.
2 are catchment for a lovely primary that is a feeder into an amazing secondary school (top 50 in country) so pretty much guaranteeing DCs (2 years and another on way) would have an amazing education.
However 3rd house is probably my favourite, quite street, amazing garden with already build in kids swings/climbing frame at bottom, no work needed, perfect family house. Its catchment for a lovely primary that is actually Ofsted rated 1, while other 2 are rated 2. However, its not (currently) a feeder into this amazing secondary, and though its ages 5-11, means we would then have pain of finding another decent school in area when they aren't many.

Its likely we would stay for around 8 years anyway until DS finishes primary and then move again. But would you sacrifice the perfect house to almost guarantee your kids have a great education in primary and secondary schools? Or take slight risk in perfect house, with fantastic primary and then deal with secondary issue nearer the time? Surely so much could change in 10 years re. new schools etc anyway? Other 2 houses are lovely too, but just not quite as amazing as the other.
I'm so new to this all so would appreciate any thoughts, thanks.

Our local secondary has had a massive turnaround in the last 5 years. I would categorically not have sent my children there, but now I am quite happy to.

The forced academisation programme has the potential to bugger up schools anyway. A huge amount can happen in 10 years.

OP, just chiming in to say I get it. We're not even parents yet, and I'm driving DP nuts looking for a house in the catchment of a good secondary (!) because the primaries round my way are brill but secondaries are dire and I'm already stressing. Yes, really. I'm otherwise not mad, I promise.

The advice I keep being given, which is slowly helping me come down from the proverbial ledge, is as per this thread - schools change, circumstances change, you're working with really imperfect data.

I'm obviously not in a position to advise you, but I do understand why this is a big deal for you and hope you're able to find a way through.

So, the sink comp that we are in catchment for has had a new head and new building s and a big turnaround.
Great
except the catchment area still includes a massive rough estate. Many of the families on there have multiple problems, and the school has to deal with all of that alongside trying to teach.
We haven't sent our kids there. There is a limit on what a school can do. Maybe I am wrong, but sometimes good teachers just aren't enough.

So if I had to chose, then I would be looking not just at the school now, but the area it sits in.

Steppemum yes that's the issue.

This isn't a rough area. Just a largely non English speaking one, 70% non white British (which is not a problem in the slightest...But is if English isn't spoken).

Even if they get outstanding, presumably that's outstanding in context of working with this student group

Well, going against the grain here, but I regret not thinking about secondary when we moved here 12 years ago with a 2 yr old. She is now also at a 'top 50' state school but it's difficult to get her there, dc2 going there this year and we're looking to move to easier journey there. But moving is a huge waste of money (stamp duty etc). A top 50 school is unlikely to become poor in 10 years... But the primaries have changed lots here in that time (the secondaries haven't). Sorry if that causes you more confusion!

At my dd's primary school the headteacher died very suddenly and unexpectedly. It sent the whole school into freefall.

The staff were devastated. The deputy became the head for a while but she just couldn't do it.

Other teachers left as it made them revaluate their lives.

We got an interim head, shared with another school and it was almost a year before we got a new permanent head teacher.

Then things became even more difficult as she was so different. More teachers left. The deputy retired early to look after her grandchildren.

It was years before things became steady again and it was not the same school.

We moved for a decent (not top of the tables) primary and secondary when DCs were two and a baby. I don't regret that decision for one second.

Before you blink your DC will be 7/8 and fully integrated in their local community and with local friends, as will you be. You won't want to move and will spend the last few years of primary stressing about it and finding the money to do it. (It cost us £35k to move including stamp duty. We simply couldn't afford to do it again).

It's really comforting knowing they'll go to school with their friends and that we know where they're going. In fact they talk a lot about the various schools they'll be going to because they know where that will be.

You might love the house but don't underestimate how stressful it will be knowing you night have to move and leave your lovely house or might not get a decent school.

I was going to say something very similar to Savoy

That sort of thing is really not that uncommon. Although it obviously happens more because a Head leaves/retires rather than dies.

But often the new one wants to make their mark and it can lead the school down a very different path indeed.

I'd take the house you want the most, OP. Also, remember that OFSTED ratings aren't the be all and end all. Individual schools will suit individual kids sometimes, regardless of ratings.

Be very careful about thinking any school is amazing. They just aren't.

We went for the grotty house in catchment for a primary and secondary I felt comfortable with.

I think we made the right decision for us. Dc have had a settled life and felt part of the community. They've moved from pre-school to primary and are to move soon to secondary with their friends. They'll be able to walk to school with friends and pop round each other's houses after school.

We did make the decision when eldest was just coming up to 2. My own childhood involved moving around a lot and I just didn't want it for my dc if it could be avoided.

I think more often than not housing is more expensive if it's in catchment for a well regarded school. These days there is virtually nothing for sale this side of town where the better secondary school is. If we had lived elsewhere and tried to move now we'd have had a problem. Because the houses over here have increased in price at a faster rate than those over the other side of town and there is virtually nothing on the market.

So if it were me I would discount the third house and go for one of the slightly less shiny ones. But everyone is different.

Schools can change massively in that time. One Head Teacher retiring or moving on and a new one coming in can change everything. We can even predict what changaes the governments of the day will impose on schools between now and then. I wouldn't even be considering secondary schools with a child that young.

How many secondaries are within travelling distance? And how many do kids from those schools end up at? If you're in a city it's quite possible your kid's friends will end up in 20 different schools, no matter whether the reputation of one has changed or anything else.

If you're in a small town where everyone goes to school A except for a few who end up at School B, it's different, but again reputations can change (usually 20 years after the school itself does!)

Yeah we're going to have to move for secondary and planning for it comes round quickly I think. In terms of catchments etc changing, yes they can but it depends where you are. In more rural areas there is often one school for the whole town.

Sounds like where you live children tend to go to their local school. Think about the community in the area you would be living in - if the area is nice even if the teaching/leadership at the school goes down hill a bit then there will still be nice families living nearby for your children to be friends with.

The secondary that I thought my DS would go to when he was 2 (he's now 8), has now been demolished and merged with another school in the next town. No way of predicting so far in advance what will happen. Just take nursery and primary into account at this age.

With only 4 years to go would everyone stick by the advice to go with the house over the school?

This is such a nightmare.

The school really is particularly bad. Talking high 40% performance. And no A levels offered. & there aren't any other guaranteed options locally...most years they are all oversubscribed except for direct catchment.

Just looked into private school - that would potentially be cheaper / similar than cost of a house like this in a top catchment area. But could only do it up to 6th form.

Argh. Maybe we need to embrace the idea of a tiny soulless house for stupid amounts of money. Just seems ridiculous.

i would have a look at the Secondary that kids are going to from the closest Primary - we did a sort of passing glance at ofsted tables when bought this house as didn't have dc althogh we talked about havig kids at some stage ....i remember saying well the nearest look ok .... but it didn't matter as we'd probably move- and no we haven't moved ...ds starts nearest in Sep ....and both are still ok - they seem to take it in turns with results and there's things i liked/didnt like about either but here we are ....not found anywhere to move to worth the 30k to move...

So guess am saying - check out the school if its ok then go for it - if its dreadful then I would factor the cost of moving into my costs.... If it improves hurray ...if its still awful then move ....or depending where you are start polishing the brass at the local church (or find out how much brass polishing/length of attending is required)

It's hard to know without knowing the area.

I think here, you'd be better off buying the smaller/uglier house now in the catchment area for the school you prefer, then move once your dc have secondary school places.

We bought our perfect home, my dc were in a good primary. The secondary at that time was doing OK nothing special. As my DC got towards the end of primary the secondary went downhill (new unpopular HT) so we applied out of catchment and got in to a lovely school 15 minute drive away.

Against the grain, I would think about schools over perfect house. We didn't and I already regret it a bit.

I'm in Wales so we have Estyn instead of Ofstead, but I gather it's roughly the same.

I would never go by Estyn ratings because I've come to realise that all schools are not graded equally.

There are 2 schools in my borough for instance that get the outstanding grade. One is in a very naice area, is actually one of the best comps in the Country - something like 94% getting 5 A-C GCSE's, which is well above the national average, they have excellent extra curricular schedules, including being one of the few comps to offer Latin - and so on. The other is fucking awful. In the middle of a huge, deprived area. 45% getting 5 A-C GCSEs. Minimal extra curricular.

The second school got an outstanding because it's come on leaps and bounds - it's had a huge amount of money ploughed into it, has been completely revamped with lots of new lovely facilities and it's exam % has nearly doubled. It's doing well for the area it's in. The 45% getting 5 A-C GCSEs is the improved* figure - before that it was in special measures for years because of 70% of kids leaving there without 5 GCSE's.

But it's still shit, and the results are still awful compared to most. Yet it has the same rating as the amazing school.

I would look at the actual area, the actual school, the results and the extra curricular. Because even poorly performing schools somehow can come away with decent ratings.

Feeder schools are not set in stone. Secondary schools can change their admission policy at any time.