Why don't vegans eat eggs?

[Floowho]

This is a genuine question. As someone who has kept chickens in my garden as a hobby, during the late Spring, Summer and early Autumn my chickens lay an egg every day. If I didn't eat these eggs that were laid, what was I supposed to do with them? If I left them in a nest box, one of the chickens would become broody and sit on the eggs, then lose condition because of it. Perhaps I am posting on the wrong board, and I am not looking to goad anybody, your life choices are your life choices. One of these chickens is still alive 8 years later, so she must have a good life, though she no longer lays. I am totally against battery farming, and will pay however much more for eggs that are as free range as possible.

I hear what you're saying fluffy but you could argue the same about grain harvested for animal feed. Just think of the field mice/animals killed as a result of that. As someone said up thread, it's about looking at the bigger picture.

"Perfect is the enemy of good", eh?

Looking at the bigger picture maisy surely vegans would stop having children because every new life on this planet needs to eat, and EVERYTHING a human eats is likely to be at the expense of other life. My point I'd that it seems arbitrary to say that we shouldn't eat animals or animal products, it's probably the tip of the iceberg.

I might be making this up but I'm fairly certain I've heard someone say they don't drink alcohol because rodents die in the process?

Re snake venom etc it's been answered. Seeing animals as important enough to avoid killing them, wishing to see them treated well etc is not the same as seeing them as your equal. So there's no inherent contradiction with putting yourself first in a life or death, or me or it, situation.

Further, you could see veganism as a response to choice and plenty. A plant-based diet is viable here and now. Someone who is vegan in these circs might have no qualms about killing to eat in a survival situation. There's no contradiction there and some vegans can be less sentimental and squeamish than some omnivores.

Great quote Tara, maybe, as with most things, just do the best you can Fluffy?

There are few other areas of endeavour where I regularly hear people arguing 'if you can't be perfect, immediately, don't bother trying at all'.

If you believe something is right, or preferable, you do your best and are pleased about whatever small difference that makes, surely.

bbpp Most alcoholic drink are made using animal derived ingredients. Vegans tend to drink brands that don't.

Animal derived products used in the production of alcohol include; Albumin – derived from egg whites (may be caged eggs); Casein – Protein derived from milk; Chitin – derived from the shells of crabs, lobsters, etc; Gelatine – from bones and connective tissues of cows or pigs; Isinglass - obtained from fish swim bladders.

Well yes, you have a point fluffy as there is an interest with regards controlling the population as a means to protect the planet amongst other reasons.

Www.populationmatters.org

You wouldn't think would you? It's crazy how we use animals in so many products. Until I was about 15 I though the horse and glue thing was a wind up...

I know, it's been a real eye opener for me this past few years. I became a Vegetarian about four years ago and every day I'm learning something new about how we use and abuse animals in our daily lives. I keep wondering why I didn't know this before!

""One thing I really don't understand though, is refusing wool and honey?""

I'm Vegan and live as ethically as I can afford.

I don't want any choices that I can help (rather than say deny my family members medicine), to cause unnecessary suffering or exploitation, this includes people and the planet.

I wouldn't eat eggs, even from free range birds, because I wouldn't be able to digest them and I wouldn't want to make myself ill for three days.

I decided against HRT because there was no information of whether the source was synthetic.

Until Farming practises came in, it was the norm for anyone, other than those owning farms to eat and use animals in the way we do today.

It wasn't 'Culture' or 'Tradition', that's why a lot of 'authentic ethnic cuisine' is Vegan in base, we been persuaded to support the food industry and lied to about what causes, Deserts, Floods and poverty around the World.

Vietnam is going to become the next ravaged country to make a select few go from being multi millionaires to billionaires.

'Most Alcohol drinks are made from animal products'

No they're not and again those that are, it's because of cost.

I can get Vegan wine even in Weatherspoons.

Everyone thinks is so difficult to be Vegan or even cut down on animal consumption, but it really isn't.

As for Medicines, again it's about profit.

""I keep wondering why I didn't know this before!""

Because the most powerful people, in the world, have shares in the food/advertising/transport industries and control what happens.

It's shocking to think that a lot of the people caught up in the 1985 Ethiopian famine were Coffee producers/workers, one of the most expensive commodities.

The poverty that's happened across Africa is linked to food production.

Everyone thinks is so difficult to be Vegan or even cut down on animal consumption, but it really isn't

Becoming Vegetarian is one of the easiest things I've ever done in my life despite the fact I used to devour bacon butties. The biggest challenge I have is dealing with aggressive people who the minute you say you don't eat meat bombard you with the usual shite and suddenly become experts in nutrition and lecture you about protein. God it's so boring.

Maisy I'm going to direct this question at you, I'm not sure if you use wool but perhaps you could explain.

Sheep that are used for wool have been bred so that their wool continuously grows. Which in itself is probably unethical, but if wool farming was to suddenly be banned what would vegans suggest happen to these sheep? Would they just be left to die out?

I feel like ensuring they have good welfare, are free to roam in large fields etc and are sheared regularly would be the lesser of two evils, perhaps, I guess it depends on your viewpoint.

""Sheep that are used for wool have been bred so that their wool continuously grows. Which in itself is probably unethical, but if wool farming was to suddenly be banned what would vegans suggest happen to these sheep?""

I'll answer what I personally think, but this doesn't apply to all Vegans.

We farm sheep and animal welfare is one of most Vegans priorities.

What I would like to see is less animals being bred/kept/slaughtered/transported in appalling ways.

Governments long ago should have protected the rights of Farmers to not have to carry out some of the practices that they do.

I would rather people eat Veal, for example.

It give a similar situation, we have now stopped breeding animals for cosmetic testing, breeding can be slowly wound down.

That isn't what every Vegan wants, though, we just want Ethics putting in Consumerism (which is a pipe dream).

The idea that animals are 'ours' to do with what we please, can and does lead to cruelty.

I was on another thread joking about how most people don't consider the stress is Vegans go through to try and keep our gardens tidy.

I think that if the popularity for a Vegan lifestyle grew and more ethical options were introduced affecting the demand for animal products, farmers would adjust as any business does and slow down breeding programmes etc.

Yes, the 'what if everyone turned vegan overnight' argument (about any animals) is a rhetorical, absurdist one, usually employed (though not in this case) to ridicule or derail. I cannot conceive of a situation in which that would happen.

All agricultural 'rare breeds' used to be popular breeds.

I always wonder whether people must feel very sad about all the horses no longer born and enabled to live happy horsey lives since the invention of the motor car.

And then there's the argument 'if we didn't breed animals for food they wouldn't get the opportunity to have a life in the first place' .

And of course the presence of large numbers of sheep is not environmentally neutral, as is true, though in different ways, for other farmed animals.

If you look up discussions about wildlife conservation, sheep grazing and landscape, well, they are plentiful and lengthy. The Lake District for example was once heavily wooded (200+ years ago ish), then farmed sheep grazing created the short grass now valued as part of a landscape of wide open vistas. Not so good for wildlife though. Who is more important, a red squirrel who would live in a tree, a sheep that eats that tree as a tiny shoot preventing it's growth, so no woods, a person who likes looking across a bare grassy landscape, one who sees the sheep as part of a cultural landscape, a livelihood, one who would prefer to see trees, or sees wildlife tourism as a livelihood?

It's rarely a simple, binary choice.

Thank you for your comments! I'd not considered the environmental aspect of lots of sheep, and it does seem obvious that breeding would simply become less and less.

I think this has to be the politest discussion I've ever had about Vegan/Vegetarians, it makes a refreshing change to speak to people who have genuine questions. So many people can be unfairly aggressive and defensive at the mere mention of the V word. It's nice to be in such great company!

Thank you! You too, I think a lot of people get their knickers in a twist about it unnecessarily. I don't understand why someone would get angry at a vegan/vegetarian for the way they live their life, unless they were insecure about their own moral choices. Hardly hurting anyone?

I'm a part time vegan as in I eat so little dairy and am totally vegetarian, that I easily get through a few days at a time as a "vegan".
I do wear leather shoes but I limit the amount I buy, same with leather bags. To be fair my "pleather" bags and shoes are likely held together with horse bone glue. Not all of my make up is vegan, maybe half?
I've known some very hardcore vegans, for the pp asking "what about mice killed in grain harvesting, where does it all end" well living a sustainable off-grid life growing and harvesting your own food and building your own eco house having as little impact on the planet as possible.
I've never been a fan of honey so I avoid it, I think it's basically bee vomit :)

AFAIK buddhists are really worried about killing insects when harvesting plants?

Free range chicken farming are much better for chickens, however intensive poultry farming of any method, is devastating for the environment.

If I was to be a vegan it would be more for the environmental reasons that say animal cruelty. I have no strong feelings about humans eating flesh foods or wearing leather as such. But the industrial scale farming methods behind the food we eat, esp animal products even free range eggs and organic milk is cruel, gross and ultimately devastating to the environment.

My point being not all vegans will be so because of cruelty. Being vegan doesn't mean you'd necessarily would think twice about killing a mosquito or accepting venom antidote. Some might, some won't.