To think its shit that local library is only open 3.5 "days" a week

[livingintheNL]

Closed on Wednesdays (grrr) and closes at 2PM on Friday.

Even the days its open (mon, tue, thur), these are 10-12 and 2-6pm. Its all just a bit useless imo.

The trouble is partly that councils view libraries as mere 'nice to have' compared to other services. The fact that you can't have education without libraries escapes them. Plus of course you get so much more out of libraries for such a small price.

But the ultimate problem is the central government refusing to give anthing back to the rest of the country. My local council is seriously talking about reducing rubbish collection, no wonder the libraries are going. We'll end up with piles of rubbish out on the streets, as if Britain is Nigeria or something. Why are they destroying their own country like this?

Whippet, with respect the number of university libraries in any given area is tiny compared to (what was) the number of public libraries and school libraries and special libraries. People should not now be wasting their money on qualifications that will not get them a decent job. There are not enough to go round, as Bungo says. Over 100 people applied for my poorly paid part time job in a secondary school 7 years ago. I got it because I have a degree in library management and 15 years of working in education libraries. while that was what got me the job, I am stuck there because there are no jobs in librarianship coming up these days. Very rarely anyway, and so huge competition.

I am bitter because I won't get funding for a second degree in order to change career, and I don't earn enough to save up and pay for one myself. it was the wrong degree choice for me.

And I'm expecting to be made redundant in the next couple of years so will be stuffed unless they change the rules for student loans for second degrees.

It wasn't the wrong degree choice when we took it, and no one believed the neo-liberalists would destroy society to this degree. Lack of retraining at an affordable price (I don't accept £9k pa tuition fees as affordable) is a major problem when the world is being changed so much around us and the cost of living is so high and rising while wages do not. I don't quite see how ordinary people are supposed to live nowadays.

So the number of library users will decrease, then they will close them, using the statistics as a reason. This has been happening for years, but more now that the government has cut the money for local government.

I find it sad that libraries are shut and opening hours curtailed.... But more from a nostalgia perspective. Sad as it might be, I wonder if libraries have a place in the world today, at least to the extent there used to be. I'd be interested to know what people posting on here use their library for... When younger I used the library for information... The Internet has made this redundant - sad perhaps, but true. As for fiction, plentiful second hand books are available for pennies at charity shops. Yes, those without the money to access the Internet etc at home need support and facilities, but the traditional library with its space largely taken with rows of books isn't really the most efficient way of delivering this. The world's changed... Traditional Libraries unfortunately don't cut it. Like the telegram and the video cassette, it was great, but we need to face reality and stop living a nostalgic dream.

Despite the cuts our local council still manages to pay its Chief Executive about £200,000 per year, and a whole raft of other top executives over £100,000. Not to mention their final salary pensions. I'd be quite happy to exchange a couple of those for more library hours...

Despite the cuts our local council still manages to pay its Chief Executive about £200,000 per year, and a whole raft of other top executives over £100,000.

In the meantime, we are forcefed the same lie that we were with the banking crisis: we need to, apparently, reward such supposedly talented individuals. Pay cuts should start at the top, first!

In the meantime, we are forcefed the same lie that we were with the banking crisis: we need to, apparently, reward such supposedly talented individuals. Pay cuts should start at the top, first

Undoubtedly £200k is a lot of money, but the CEO has a huge amount of responsibility and his/her decisions could easily have a £10m+ gain or loss for the council (and thus the taxpayers) over the course of a year. Slash pay of senior execs and they'll get jobs in the private sector leaving less experienced and talented people in charge.... And thus making it more likely that unwise, very costly decisions will be made (far outweighing their salaries), leaving even less money for libraries and other services.

If they screw up, they should go and not be rewarded for failure... And by and large, public sector CEOs who screw up are gotten rid of without ceremony.... This is very different from the bankers' world of multi-million bonuses paid for success or failure!

Our village library was on reduced hours for years despite being well used by the large elderly population.

It shut completely last September despite a big public campaign and high court battle about library services being slashed throughout the county.

Ours is about to reopen as a community run library (ie by volunteers) but only time will tell if it works. We used the village library alot but when it closed we haven't accessed the next nearest one - it's 5 miles away and parking charges are pretty steep for a for a trip to the library.

there was something really depressing about walking past a library full of books that no one could access. For all these months they've just sat there.

However I would add the local county council sent out a list of services for the public to have a say on which ones to keep and which ones to cut - when they are considering cutting funding to dv services, road repairs, lollipop crossings and road gritting libraries seem like a luxury service.

30 years ago I would have strongly supported the sentiments expressed in this thread.

Now I think that the concept of the local library, like the workhouse, is an anachronism.

I'd say that libraries are more valued as a social club or day centre, which is fine, but that does not justify the costs of a network of local libraries.

Other supporters of libraries are just ideologically committed to tax-payer funded collectivism; again, that's fine except for the "tax-payer funded" bit.

Although there are some people, including in this thread, who refer to their "busy" local library; I'd suggest that library-usage is in longterm decline and most protests against closures are sparsely attended.

I used to visit my local library for academic and work research. I never do that now because I use the internet - the new global library accessible to rich & poor almost everywhere.

I would like to see the end of all publicly-funded libraries; perhaps apart from one centralised reference library in every large town or city, likely to be linked to an academic institution. If local people want to get together to maintain their village or small town library then fine - I wish them well.

I'd prefer public money to be diverted to ensuring that every household in the country (and the whole world!) has super-fast broadband internet access. And whatever learning or reading-material you'd like to give the public access to - then great, put that on the internet with free access so the whole world can read it!

And whatever learning or reading-material you'd like to give the public access to - then great, put that on the internet with free access so the whole world can read it!

The crucial word is "free", which the internet is not.

The crucial word is "free", which the internet is not.

Fair point, but then isn't it best to focus any available resource providing wider access to the Internet, which libraries do in part I recognise, but it's a small part of what they do.

Traditional libraries are quaint institutions relevant to the 20th century, not the 21st. I understand people feel sad about that, I do too, but that insufficient reason for applying taxpayer funding to preserve them in their current form.

There aren't many traditional libraries around anymore. Our library service offers free e-books, free e-magazines, access to free academic resources, IT training and plenty more. It is heavily used by some of society's most vulnerable people. Those who do not have computers/printers/Internet at home, or who do not know how to use them. Those who are totally housebound and rely on library charity services to deliver them books, or those that come in to access the training courses, book groups etc that offer them a social life or vital skills. We often help people with CVs or job applications because they have nowhere else to turn for help, especially as other rural services have been cut back too. I could cope without the library if needed, we buy books for ourselves and use the Internet. I see all the people that absolutely do rely on libraries and dread to think that what would happen to some of them without the library. It would be nice if the cuts meant there was money for other support but that isn't what is happening so lots of people are relying more on libraries (the ones that are left) because other services have already gone. None of this is simple, but unless you have spent time in a library lately, watching how they are used and by whom, then it is very difficult to speak with certainty about whether they are still useful.

I work two jobs, one as a librarian and one in the public sector that involves putting together a budget for public funds so I am well aware of the very tricky balancing act and am very grateful that the budget I need to put together doesn't include such vital services to be honest, it's hard enough as it is.

If they didn't waste so much bloody money, they'd be able to keep things open. Our local village library was closed for three months last year and had a virtual rebuild that must have cost hundreds of thousands of pounds. New roof, new toilets, ramp, automatic doors, mood lighting, outside decking area, new computer suite - the works. It had barely re-opened and it was announced it was proposed to shut it permanently. Who are these clowns who make decisions in local councils? We've all known for years that there are ongoing funding cuts - it's not a surprise, so why not just spend the bare minimum to keep it ticking over, i.e. repair the roof rather than replace it, and do we really need a public toilet and automatic door and decking area when the locals have managed perfectly well without for a few decades. The money they spent on the refurbishment would have kept it open for another few years. Complete muppets.

And whatever learning or reading-material you'd like to give the public access to - then great, put that on the internet with free access so the whole world can read it!

Missed that one. Have you considered the economic side of things? At the moment in a physical library we have 'Public Lending Right', which means that authors / creators get a small payment every time their book is borrowed. The basic principle of a library is that communally we can pay for access to far more books than any of us could individually (getting children fully literate takes a lot of books). You could do the same on a website, but who is going to pay for that? Paying in Britain out of a decreasing tax take for universal access for the whole world is done, think BBC website, but someone still needs t pay somewhere and it's going to be a hard sell to strapped councils. Libraries have been told we should turn ourselves into IT hubs before, but no one will bloody fund us to do it. Google books, if that's what you're thinking of, ran into serious legal difficulties when they simply tried to nick everything and put it online for free. We do need to pay authors for creative efforts, assuming you want those creative efforts to be continued and authors to be able to earn a living.

The trouble is nowadays we seem to be on the one hand trying to create a money-less economy, with low wages or volunteers running services, while the real cost of living goes through the roof.

Honestly, libraries have been developed over hundreds of years, the British public library system over a hundred and fifty, and it represents a very very efficient system with a lot of value for money - there's never been any slack in there. I get tired of people telling us how we should be doing this, that and the other, when they have no plans to actually fund us to do it.

I'm not actually a fan of moving services into the voluntary sphere. I'd rather they closed. People might actually then appreciate them and be prepared to fund them properly - might actually start to get seriously angry about the way wealth is being deliberately allowed to accumulate by the very wealthy and demand decent redistribution again. Volunteer libraries just become another way of perpetuating the growing divides in our society - the divide between those who can afford to work for nothing, and those of us who can't even get work that pays. Exactly the reverse of what libraries and other public services are supposed to be about.

Until the government start handing out basic income, or food and housing for free with no questions asked, work needs to be paid. It's the foundation of our whole economic system ffs.

Our local authority consulted with the public about which services they wanted the cuts to be made in, a couple of years back. Most of the responses indicated the libraries should be first in line for cuts, and Adult Social Care last. This was such a shame as the libraries budget was tiny compared to other areas of expenditure. We now have hardly any libraries in the county and some being run by volunteers. Not good.

No. The basic problem there is the way local councils up and down the country are having their budgets slashed in the name of efficiency, but really to pay for the bankers' mistakes leading up to 2008 and the continuing growth in profits of the private sector (which are not shared by the lower level employees, only the very topmost, who are friends of people in government). The money is there in the system, but it is increasingly being taken out of the public sphere and into the hands of the minority elite. Who then refuse, with government collusion, to pay anything back in taxes. This has contributed to the collapse of civilisations in the past.

Mumontherun and Catsonlaps you are living in a dream land if you think that the money from closing libraries is going anywhere near the police force or any emergency services. The money is going to line the pockets of the senior management with inflated salaries in the LA and for the LA to spend unwisely on road signs, replacing things that are not broken to use up a department budget, changed department names so all stationery is thrown out and replaced and buying expensive parts for poorly maintained buildings. I could go on and on. Please do be so naive as to think that when a library is closed the money saved will actually go back in to services that will benefit the public. It is purely a self protection exercise for the fat cats.

As other posts have say....this was what the general public voted in. The bed was made and now we have to lie in it.

If anyone is interested in helping libraries find a secure place in their local community then support them by borrowing books and visiting regularly (at least once a fortnight). These are the two biggest statistics that are monitored and used by councillors and management when arguing that areas do not need a library or that the hours can be cut again. The power to save libraries is in each and every one of us and we will also be to blame if they are lost. If for no other reason do it for the children and families who can't afford to buy their own books.

• do not be so naive

BungoWomble yes, yes, yes!

Especially this Until the government start handing out basic income, or food and housing for free with no questions asked, work needs to be paid. It's the foundation of our whole economic system ffs.

Volunteers in libraries is not the solution, it's just more people without a job.

It is also just within the salaries of the LA highest earners that extra money could be found. It is from the huge amount of financial assets that the local authorities are sitting on quietly. These are usually within the millions. It is in the region of £55million in our area. This is kept out the public information but information is available when you look carefully and when you put in Freedom of Information Act requests.