Cheating at work and management reaction

[ApollO88]

Sorry if this gets long winded

So today I find next to the work printer a photocopy of an exam that I sat for an internal training course at work. It's got the handwriting of a colleague all over it with notes and answers from different pages made on it. It looks as though she has been copying my work. I take the document to my manager who brushes it aside and compares us to his teenage daughters squabbling over the make up mirror in the bathroom.

Aibu to report him for his reaction and my colleague for her cheating?!

I am right royally pissed off with the cheating. I have worked hard in my training courses and not only is she stupid enough to cheat but she's stupid enough to leave the evidence laying around!

And I cannot believe my managers reaction to what should be treated very seriously! It's professional cheating! I have never had an issue with this colleague before so compare us to squabbling teenagers is just ridiculous!

Your manager's reaction sounds bullying, belittling and sexist. I doubt he would have used that language - 'two teenager girls fighting over a mirror in the bathroom' etc - had you been a man. Sounds like he's the one who could benefit from some training.

Plagiarism is only serious in some contexts (like chocorabbit's husband's). In others it is of no concern whatsoever, since it causes no harm.

It is absolutely dreadful. We all have a moral duty to make sure this kind of thing never happens. Every bit of cheating allowed grows like a cancer. It must be stamped out,.

What I am saying, and I've said before, is that the OP has not handled this professionally or well.

Oh for heaven's sakes, just put the spade down. The only person posting immature twaddle is you; you're making yourself look ever more ridiculous.

OP, this must have been really upsetting. I'm sorry you are dealing with it and I hope there's a more constructive approach to the problem over the next few days.

Unfortunately this kind of thing was rife in a former workplace of mine. The head of section used to regularly coach her proteges for jobs that were above them she would give them the interview questions & answers in advance She would also sit on the recruitment panel that appointed them. HR knew about it but turned a blind eye.

I think any qualification that relies on the same test paper being given on different days, especially when the test paper can be taken away by candidates, isn't worth a great deal.

What????? SVQs/ NVQs, HNDs, Degrees? Genuinely can't believe some of the responses I'm reading here!

I was part of an intake at work who have all done our SVQs, HNDs and degrees via distance learning at the same time. Coursework was always kept on our desks and expected to be taken home at weekends. One of the first things you learn is the difference between collaboration and plagerism. Stealing someones coursework to scribble over/ rehash into your own would be taken extremely seriously.

I'm literally gobsmacked that some people seem to think this is not a big deal.

What degrees rely on the same test paper given out to candidates who are allowed to take the paper (and their answers) home at the end of the exam? I'll remember not to bother with their graduates when I'm hiring.

An essay - yes, that's why they run them through software that looks for copying, though even then most places try not to reuse essay questions in order to minimise the possibilities too much. But an exam? I certainly hope not.

any qualification that relies on the same test paper being given on different days, especially when the test paper can be taken away by candidates, isn't worth a great deal.

^This^

So, because the opinion of some mumsnetter's is that this qualification 'isn't worth much', OP should just take it on the chin that someone has cheated? Nice.

YANBU OP.

It doesn't mean that the cheating was good - just that the manager isn't going to care as much if the certificate isn't that important. He'll see the results of her training in the work she does and it should be reflected in her appraisals, the fact that she cheated to get some mark on a piece of paper may have no impact at all on work.

Plagiarism is only serious in some contexts (like chocorabbit's husband's). In others it is of no concern whatsoever, since it causes no harm.

Plagiarism is always serious. In what circumstances can it be said to cause no harm, both to the person whose work is stolen, and the person who has stolen it?

Well, when I see a bit of witty prose on MN and then turn that around and pass it off as my own to all my FB friends - that would be an example of plagiarism that is not serious. No one has been harmed. The world continues to turn.

(Not that I've ever done that, my FB status updates are boring).

In this case, if the certificate is not of any value outside of the good feeling people get from earning it, then the cheater has caused no actual harm.

I'm doing my degree right now with the open university, along with other people in my work, and we all have the same test papers given out to us at the start of the course

And if I had completed mines and stored it away in my folder with my coursework, then found another workmate had found it and photocopied it so they could re-hash it into their own words I'd be absolutely livid.

Its plagerism.

SVQs/ NVQs work on the principle that the qualification is granded on evidence you provide of work you have done. If i found someone had copied one of my work logs I'd be fuming, and the assessor would likely kick them off the course.

The quote I put at the top of my previous post reeks of snobbery by the way. Even if it was just an internal course, why should OP put in the hard work while someone else copies her and ends up with the same result? What horrible attitudes.

It is plagiarism Hamiltoes. I'm not disagreeing with that. And if it's undermining the integrity of an important qualification than it needs looking at more closely. I'm just doubting that it's undermining the integrity of an important exam.

I've studied with the OU too. They bent over backwards (sometimes to the detriment of the learning environment) to try and ensure people aren't able to cheat in this way. Exam papers could not be removed from the exam room. Online exams were not graded until they had all been submitted, essays were checked with special software to look for copying. And exams, online tests and essay questions were all changed each course (though themes were often predictable). In one data intensive course they didn't even set the same questions for everyone on the online test, using different datasets for different people (i.e. same sort of calculation, different numbers) so that if a group of people did decide to share answers a significant proportion of them would get each question wrong. Publishing or sharing any of your questions, answers, or tutors feedback was a disciplinary offence. Had some people too scared to even talk about things they didn't understand online, which was a bit of a shame.

Those are the sorts of things I'd expect to see from an institution that was concerned about the integrity of their qualifications. I'm surprised they have some courses that don't care.

Computer Science degree is said course that "doesn't care".

But why would anyone be stupid enough to steal someone elses work and use it as their own anyway. I find it very strange that many on this thread are not bothered at all about this.

hamiltoes yours are assessments not 'exams'

Whats the difference between an assessment and a test? you pass the course based on the results.

How upsetting that the manager chose to demean you (& the cheater) rather than deal with it in professional manner.

I think it shows that this course isn't actually considered to be very important, by this manager anyway.

But only the OP knows how it is regarded overall within the company and in her industry in general.

But no excuse for an attitude of 'so what' about cheating. Personally I don't want cheaters working for or with me, but maybe that's just me, old fashioned perhaps to want colleagues I can trust.

I think the kind of business which according to some posters makes their staff waste their time with a course of little value or professional benefit, and then belittles a member of staff for being foolish enough to take it seriously, and who wants to be treated with respect by other colleagues, rather than a source of answers... Well, if that's all considered fine and dandy at a company level (vs a random bad manager), then it doesn't seem like a great company to me.

Assessed coursework is different from an exam in that is designed to be done in an environment where you have access to information. So looking in books or discussing how to tackle it, to decide what the best algorithm might be, or the like is normally part of what your are supposed to do. Extensive answers give scope for checking for cheating by comparing answer scripts. But it is problematic and the prevalance of cheating is causing some universities to question the extent to which it can be relied on for grading purposes. (Which is a shame because it tends to be a better test of what people are capable of in the real world).

An exam is more a test of what you have stored in your head and what you can do in a set amount of time. Access to the questions alone gives an advantage. Hence the secrecy most organizations put around their exams papers when the integrity of the qualification is important.

The manager just wants a quiet life that's no way to motivate staff.

OP I understand your feelings, if you work hard for a course and take an exam then have a freeloader copy and probably improve on your test at the time it gives them an unfair advantage and punishes the honest among us.

But! Weigh up what you do do carefully as things rarely turn out exactly as you would want.

If the exam does not lead to a qualification that is used to give or deny some other benefit, how are the rest of us punished if someone cheats on it?

For instance, I have a certificate for a negotiation course I completed through work once. If I tell a new employer I have that certificate it means nothing to them. That I have training in negotiation will be a good thing, but the certificate isn't recognised by anyone. If I say I have a "certificate in negotiation" to a potential employer it means no more than if I say I completed the course (which is what I do say on my CV). What is important to them is that I have the skills, training is one indication of that as are the negotiations I have undertaken since the course. A qualification is only worth its reputation. Since the certificate I have has no reputation it is pointless to tell people I have it because they have no way of judging what it means for me to have it.

If I had cheated on that course, how would anyone else be being punished?