To wonder why people are against homework in Primary school?

[EmGee]

I'm intrigued by this after reading some responses on another thread about homework in primary school. A good number of responses were against homework.

My 6yo is in her first year of primary school (in France though, not UK). In France, this is the year kids are taught to read and write (in cursive). She has reading homework every night, often words to practise writing. Once every month or so, she has a 'dictée' (kind of like a spelling test) on words and sounds learnt during this time. In addition to this, she has English homework twice a week (she is in a French school with a bi-lingual section, so she has two hours a week of English with a native English-speaking teacher with the other bi-lingual kids) - this consists of a two-sided worksheet to complete, and eight words to learn for a spelling test every week (4 x phonetic words, 4 x sight words).

Homework is given right up until the last day of term and then you are given holiday homework. For the Christmas holidays, there was (for French) 5 sheets with exercises to do (not particularly difficult, mainly revision of sounds, words, basic grammar rules), review all the words learnt that term, and to aim for 15 mins reading a day. Luckily no English homework to do.

It sounds a lot, doesn't it? I've been told it gets worse and next year, she will have 16 words of English to learn plus story-telling as well as reading and of course, the French homework increases with a heavier emphasis on the dreaded dictées.

I felt very stressed and rebellious at the beginning of this school year although now we are getting into a routine but it means being very organised especially evenings where there is an after-school activity. I should add that on Wednesdays there is no school but the other days are long (9-5).

AIBU to suggest that homework is not such a bad thing? We are told 20-30 minutes an evening is enough at 6 years.

Research it has no positive correlation with academic success. So it's useless for its purpose, and it has an obvious opportunity cost in that if you're doing 2.5 hours a week of defined homework, you cannot be doing something else with that time. Much of which may have a positive correlation with success - aerobic exercise perhaps, or indeed something that the child may enjoy.

Homework is not free - if it doesn't work for its intended purpose, it's madness to do it.

I'm against it for reasons already stated - no proof that it helps, eats into time for doing other valuable stuff, and in many cases all it reflects is the parents. I'm in London, many non-english speaking parents, and probably a fair number with not much in the way of decent education themselves. DD would do ok at homework but all it would show is that she has 2 educated British parents and has no learning difficulties or SEN.

I'd be happy for her to have a longer school day, more time with qualified teaching professionals rather than me with my out-of-date methods.

I have fewer issues with HW in primary since DC moved schools.

Mainly as there is less of it, no craft work and project work is for the oldest children in the school at an age they can do research mainly by themselves which they couldn't do when very young. It's marked and it's relevant.

No more every holiday having a huge project to get done for each child, no more poor photocopies often with missing instructions, no more thinking sending random spelling list home is actually teaching spelling - their current school actually tries to teach spellings.

The stress levels are less, we can fit in more actual stuff they need help with, more stuff they find fun and more play time for them.

Yes - times tables and spellings are obvious enough - but I've had completely mystifying homework tasks set in the past. It'll take ten minutes to figure out what's being asked, then ages to persuade DS to do it - all for some totally trivial learning goal, that we could have achieved just as easily by baking a cake or playing Ludo or whatever.

To quote the Sutton Trust:

Reducing class sizes, setting homework during primary school, and introducing school uniforms are among the least effective ways of improving school results, according to a new ‘Which?’ style guide for education published by the Sutton Trust today.

Oh and another thing I've found, at dds age you have to supervise her and help her with the homework. With some of the maths if she doesn't understand it or gets stuck I find it very difficult to explain it to her. I also worry that I might teach her a different method to what they use in school and confuse her. I've got a University maths qualification, I just find it very difficult to help her with it. I can see my help could do more harm than good in this case.

Actually yes I'd much rather a longer school day, and a possibility of a sport/music class included, but we don't really have that option. I would love that though!

I quite like the discipline of homework I suppose and I've noticed benefits with (eg) times tables for my daughter.

Honestly don't understand the people who don't have the time to fit it all in though - bearing in mind husband and I work full time and not home til 6.30 every night, there's plenty of time for homework if needed, even for more than one child. Not that that's a compelling argument for homework though, I just can't see how it can be significantly disruptive, unless I'm very thick.

Spellings, times tables, reading, fine.

Project homework = pointless, never marked properly and at our school always very obviously done by the under-employed, over-invested Alpha Mummies.

One of my children really struggled in reception/Y1 and homework just meant she was miserable at home as well as school (in time, she caught up). The other two have consistently been top of the class but I dont think either derived any benefit from making a fucking longboat out of paperclips or writing about the Value of the Month.

When I was at primary school we didn't get homework beyond spellings and times tables, it was one of the things that differentiated secondary school and showed you were grown up. And we all got the hang of it pretty quickly.

I couldn't agree more with your last paragraph Schnitzel.

Incidentally I stopped trying to make DD2 read to me halfway through Y1 because she found it so distressing (I read to her, obviously). By the end of Y2 she was the strongest reader in the class, despite not having struggled her way through Biff and Chip.

I object to homework as a teacher because not all children are the same. I get:
a) children and parents who love and complete homework together (I've no idea to what extent the child worked independently)
b) children who desperately want to do homework who have no one to facilitate at home
c) children who hate and throw tantrums about homework and parents who are desperate for them to do it, constantly complaining about how much toll it has on family life
d) children and parents who couldn't give a crap about completing homework!

So my argument is - what's the point? I probably get about 20% of my class completing it independently so it gives me a true reflection of what they can do. A good 40% have too much parental help. And the other 40% don't do it because either the kid has had a tantrum or the parents and child don't care!

I believe kids are far too pressured these days and their time is exactly that - THEIRS. I'd rather see them working on a Lego project with dad, or helping decorate a birthday cake with grandma. Discovering how many different species of insect are in their garden - that's what home is for!

these homework projects are often set by childless teachers, who have no idea of the impact they have on family life. Family life which may be hugely pressured anyway.

WOW you know whether teachers do or don't have children throughout the whole country????

That is a lot of homework. We're not in the UK either but at that level (when we were) my children had homework once a week and reading every night, the homework by year 5 was every other night. I do think homework is not going to achieve much when a child has already had a full packed learning day at school. My oldest child never did his best and the level and standard of homework he produced in the UK was far below what he produced when we moved to Brazil, even though he got far more homework in Brazil.

Brazilian schools split primary and secondary in the same building, so children only do half days. My son who is 2nd grade (year 3) has daily homework which takes him about an hour. He does it around 10.30 and is ready to eat lunch at 11.45, he has no homework in the evenings, weekends or school holidays. My 6th grade daughter and 8th grade son (year 7 and 9) have school in the morning from 7-11.30 so they do homework from 1-3.30/4pm everyday, then either go back to school for P.E. or they are free to do what they like at 4pm. They also have no homework on the weekends and holidays and will not until 10th grade. Evenings are their own and we are lucky that we live in safe small town that they can cycle around by themselves or with friends and have long warm evenings to swim, play sport or get an ice-cream. These things, I think, are as important as their school work.

If children are in school until 3 or 4 then maybe it would be better to have independent study time rather than homework. I think homework is essential for independent study skills but on the other hand there are many other skills that children can benefit from when they have free time to do social and physical activity as well or to just rest.

Because it eats into family time. Where both parents work children are not even home before 6, it will be gone 7 before they start homework having eaten. The government think they own our children via school as it is, don't let's give them an even bigger cut of our family life. Especially as there are no proven benefits that I know of.

I don't like it because at primary age they need a lot of help, which makes it tough for tired parents. Homework doesn't always relate to what they've learnt in school and my dad's maths were always outside her ability which knocked her confidence and caused a lot of stress. I do see the importance of parents getting involved in school work but homework doesn't really echo this. Reading is good though imo

It's ironic that the OP is in France and doesn't realise that written homework has been officially banned in French primaries for a very long time.

(The ban is widely flouted but it means they can't force families to do it if they are against it).

Personally - I don't mind it in moderation. I object to "make work" and "homework for parents", and I think 15 mins a night is enough until year 5/6. We didn't have any real issues with it but occasionally I would send it a note saying "sorry, didn't have time" if we were too busy doing more interesting things.

Actually I had heard that rule about written homework but I thought it only applied to state schools. My DD is in a private school.

Humpty

Humpty, I said 'often' set by childless teachers. Not all. I have worked extensively in the primary sector in many different geographical areas. I know what goes on. I am not having a go at childless teachers in any way, but I think we'd all agree none of us know what it's like in each family's home. Before I had children, I was highly unaware of all the things parents had to do. It wasn't because I was a bad person, as you seem to think I'm suggesting, I just hadn't experienced it for myself. Once you have experienced it, you tend to be a bit more mindful of these facts when setting things like homework.

I hate it. I think it should be dropped. No homework when I was at Primary, other than being expected to read, so it seems really OTT. They are little, they get tired, they are doing a full day in school. That should be enough!

I hate school uniform too, esp for Primary. Pointless, ugly, expensive, toxic coated polyester crap.

I haven't RTFT but my daughter is also 6 in CP. Her sister is in CM1 and is 9.
The amount of homework they both have is terrifying (and DD1 has extra lessons as maths is most def. not her strong point).
In CP she has a dictée every Friday – so 8-10 words to practice writing every week. Reading every night plus extra reading for the weekend. Plus a poem to learn off by heart every 2 weeks.
Her sister in CM1 has homework every night, and extra reading /projects to do over the weekend / school holidays.
They also have school on Wednesday mornings (this started 2 years ago).

If they have tried to do their best, or we have been busy (rare but I will not forego something family based or important just to make the teacher happy) then I have no qualms in writing a note in their cahier de textes saying “sorry, no can do” and god help them if I get called into school. At 6 she does enough – and at 9 they do not take into account the time it takes to do homework.

Their teachers have been off so much recently and the children are just expected to catch up from one day to another as well as everything else, it infuriates me.

Homework is OK with one child, hard with 2 and the further they get through primary the more difficult it becomes. And that is just for me!

Yeah - lol at the non written homework "rule". Vive la différence (entre ecrit et non ecrit..)

It's clear that regular reading, spellings and timetables are of value in primary school. There's no evidence other homework has any impact on long term achievement at school.
I used to get really pissed off with the long term craft projects. The parents who were architects, designers, artists and other creatives always produced great work. When my DS1 started getting 'proper homework' in year 1 I was appalled at how many of the parents clearly did it for their children, or who marked it and made them re-do it before handing in. And the teacher praised the children for what was clearly an adult's work.
All of a sudden the school seemed to realise that most of the mothers did now work outside the home, and stopped the ridiculous craft projects. Hallelujah. Utterly pointless. As someone said further up, all they did was decorate the classroom anyway.
As the kids moved into year 5 and 6 homework became more obviously relevant and I was happy to see it, especially as it was not every weekend.
My son has had no difficulty in moving to every day homework at secondary.