To ask why we apply end of life compassion logic to dogs but not humans

[NorthernRosie]

It struck me again today (whilst reading Tim Dowling's Guardian column!) that many people seem happy enough to believe that it's kinder to put down animals at the end of their lives to end suffering but when it comes to our own species the majority argue against people's right to make that decision.

After all an animal can't actually make the decision but a competent human adult can.

Why is this?

Many doctors are too scared to give the necessary amounts of pain relief for fear of being accused of doing a Harold Shipman by some idiot

Totally agree, this is a huge problem.

I have spent at least 30 years thinking about this and facing a real possibility of a painful and undignified end, so forgive me if I lack patience with those who appear to want to make choices for me with their rose tinted spectacles on.

Newsflash: disabled people are already treated with contempt by society at large. Allowing people the choice of a dignified death will not makes hat worse.

And its complete hysterical scaremongering - look at Oregon. There is no huge rise in culling the disabled in those jurisdictions that permit assisted suicide.

I completely agree with those who have said that we need to face up to what is going one nd understand that death comes to us all. Doctors should not be afraid of having the hard conversations and patients and families should be able to join in.

But don't make this about me being willing to enter a 'dialogue' with people who want to deny me MY choice because they can't face up to reality. Fuck that.

theres the legalities in it....a dog never has a birth or death certificate, people do....im sure medical professionals would not like to put on death certificates 'euthanised'...they are here to help sick/dying people not 'put them so sleep', there are ways of keeping people comfortable when dying...where would you stop....putting the elderly 'to sleep', 'putting down' the terminally ill...no...and i hope it never happens

The problem is that advances in medical science has made the hippocratic oath and indeed some people's belief in God's hand rather questionable. They both need to be reviewed!

The pil are in a nursing home with dementia. Mil's dementia is so bad that she is a vessel who is spoon fed three times a day. She is non-verbal, does not recognise anyone or anything, and is doubly incontinent. Nevertheless, she is carted off to hospital every so often, bunged full of antibiotics and back she swings. The only beneficiaries of this existence are the nursing home owners who have now taken in the region of £350K. It's not just about the money - but, to be brutally honest, it does seem such a waste - mil would be absolutely horrified to see herself in this abysmal state.

I agree, I feel it's the individual's right to end their suffering, if they gave a terminal condition. I think more people should have living wills, so that their wishes are known and I feel legalised, they can change their mind at any time.

Because there is nothing that can be gained by corrupt individuals, financially or otherwise, by euthanizing a dog. The same is not true about humans.

If all of those banging on about how this will provide incentives to kill elderly rich relatives refuse to look at what is actually happening in the jurisdictions where assisted suicide is permitted and has been permitted for many decades now... then excuse me if I pay no attention to your arguments.

Since the law was passed in 1997, a total of 1,173 people have had DWDA prescriptions written and 752 patients have died from ingesting medications prescribed under the DWDA.[82] In 2013, there were approximately 22 assisted suicides per 10,000 total deaths in Oregon

From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide

This applies to a small minority of deaths. But for those individuals who WANT to chose this option it is really, really important. How dare other people impose their own views on that situation - particularly when - in my opinion - many of those views are based on simple squeamish refusal to articulate a simple truth; we are dying from the moment we are born. Let's make our lives and our deaths good ones.

I understand why the rule for people isn't the same for animals (in this country) but think it should be changed.

I agree that euthanasia (properly authorised by at least two doctors over a period of time) for any person in pain and dying.

I think the problem we have in this country is largely one of Christian morality. Despite church attendance figures, the majority of people (according to recent Census records) still identify as Christian in this country. As long as that is the case, then the law will not change.

I've witnessed several relatives beg for release from pain when dying. It is a terrible thing.

I agree with euthanasia

Dogs dont own things, so those decisions for them are made by people who have no clear motive for euthanising earlier than needed.

There is a fear that by legalizing it for people, greedy inheritors will pressure and "persuade" people that they are a burden and it would be better for everyone for them to agree. I do wonder though, how many people in reality would try and send their parents and relatives off early just to get the money for that big holiday?
It seems as though there must be some way of safeguarding people and ensuring that it really is their choice beyond just denying them a choice at all.

I know that if I knew I wouldnt live past a few weeks and was in awful pain, I would want to go out on an armful of morphine rather than dragging it out.

I am facing end of life. I couldn't choose euthanasia or Dignitas because Aviva, that wonderful insurance company, would invalidate my insurance endowment policy on my mortgage. Thus wiping out every penny I've paid over the past 25 years.

One of the things that legalising assisted suicide would help with is allowing people with a degenerative condition (such as MND for example) to continue living for as long as they want to, and for some this will be a lot longer than they would have originally anticipated.

The current situation means that some people will live in horrible fear of their eventual end, and some will go to the lengths of travelling in order to retrieve some control over that end. Many (most?) terminally ill people who travel to Switzerland do so much earlier than they would want to because they have to go while they still have the ability to travel and administer the drugs themselves. This robs them and their families of time, and perhaps the discovery that what they thought would be intolerable wasn't intolerable after all.

Having the reassurance that you can control your death, can opt out if you feel enough is enough, can allow you to live.

Having the reassurance that you can control your death, can opt out if you feel enough is enough, can allow you to live.

^^THIS

My mother died of breast cancer 2 years ago and, during her final 4 days, my aunt and I didn't leave her bedside at the hospital (we slept in chairs next to her). She stopped eating on the Friday, was unresponsive (like she was asleep) from Sat morning and died on the Monday. I looked across the bed to my aunt at one point and said 'If it was legal I'd happily put a pillow over her face now.' My aunt nodded and agreed with me.

My mum was suffering and death was inevitable and we had to watch her body give up, agonisingly slowly. I am very, very pro-assisted suicide in such situations now.

And YY to the fact that you can show mercy to a dog but not a fellow human.

It's a shame that possessions and money are put ahead of dignity in dying.

I had to take the decision with a dog and I knew it was not a minute too soon. So many people who had to do the same feel that euthanasia is showing mercy.

WhetherorNot - I just wanted to say that I am so sorry for what you are going through.

I would support a change in the law.

whetherornot

I have very conflicting thoughts on this.

My father died a few yrs ago at the young age of 50. He had a very short battle with cancer. There was only 6months from diagnosis to death and his conditioned worsened very quickly. In hindsight I am glad for this because his suffering was minimal (he only took to his bed two days before he died)

That being said, shortly after dad died there was that story line on coronation street where one of the ladies had cancer, and she decided to end her own life before the cancer took over. I clearly remember thinking I am not sure how I would have coped if my dad said that was his intention. I would have been hurt. I would have, in time, accepted it as his decision, but I would have found it very hard, because no matter how Ill he was, he would always be my wonderful dad.

No one should leave this world in pain, in suffering and in confusion. So I do lean to the pro assisted suicide camp. It's a very emotive subject and anyone who is currently going through anything like this you have my upmost sympathy X

It seems as though there must be some way of safeguarding people and ensuring that it really is their choice beyond just denying them a choice at all

There is. Look at all the other jurisdictions that do it.
Why do we seem to be unable to accept that this is happening in other parts of the world and all the horrible things predicted here DO NOT HAPPEN.

I totally agree with you OP. I've been disabled for close to fifty years and my life has been an enormous struggle with a lot of pain. However, while I can gain enjoyment from things, no matter how small, I will continue but at the first sign of life becoming unbearable or the onset of dementia and I will be on the first flight to Dignitas in Switzerland.

Providing safeguards are in place to ensure no coercion from family members etc, it should be made legal in this country.

Palliative and pain relief for humans is vastly better than for animals, which is another reason this is not a good comparison

I don't believe this is the case. Much loved older pet is carried outside if it cannot walk, spoon fed tasty food if it can eat, cuddled and spoken to lovingly for up to 24/7, gets much the same pain killing medication as a human. Older person ends up using a nappy or having the indignity of hoisting, community meals like it or lump it ( no care paid for to cook nice food) Has to endure slow breakdown of body, visiting hours adhered t if in hospital and gets plugged into a syringe driver to be finished off in the most convenient way to the NHS. I'd rather be a nearly dead dog than human anyway ( I work in care)

And its also not really the point. If I don't want to spend my last few weeks in a soup of painkillers, not really aware, not communicating... Why do I have to? Why do I have to put myself and my daughter through that?

My mum spent her last few weeks in a stupor, apart from when she woke up intermittently and was in pain and afraid. She died in fear in the middle of the night and my dad had to call the ambulance and wait on his own.

But she was one of the lucky ones. She didn't spend months dying in a hospital bed. And she died before they could start doing operations to investigate her terminal cancer that had spread to her lungs and liver!

What on earth would have been the point of that?

It was about her desperation and my dad's desperation not to have to accept what was happening. We need to be able to have the honest and hard conversations. My mum wasn't going to get 'better'. She didn't have a good death because we are taught to be so afraid of dying.

It's to stop people bumping off their old relatives to get their hands on their money. Dogs and other animals don't have any money.

I have been thinking about this a lot recently.

I have a very elderly cat with chronic health problems but a good quality of life. We have discussed what the signs may be that it would be best for her to euthanise her. I know that when we do it, it will be with love and the hope (certainty) that we did best by her.

I know that's what I want for myself too, and i know it's what my mum wants for herself - we discuss it often as we look back to the way her mother (my GM) and my MIL died.

This article (Independent) is interesting. From vet's point of view

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/euthanasia-for-animals-what-can-it-teach-us-about-assisted-suicide-in-humans-10405840.html