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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Derren Brown's gone too far this time?

81 replies

Destinysdaughter · 12/01/2016 22:38

I don't know if anyone's just watched this but it was billed as an
' experiment in social compliance', where an adult is over time put in a situation where they feel they have no choice but to push a person off a building to save themselves from going to prison. It was very cleverly set up and thankfully the person they filmed didn't do it. But... Then they showed that they had done the exact same experiment with 3 other people who had done it! I was really shocked and think he's really gone too far, messing with people's heads and not considering the consequences for those individuals involved and traumatising them. Ok it may have been trying to show us not to comply but it's left a nasty taste in my mouth! Would love to know what other people think as it's left me a bit Shock

OP posts:
LurkingHusband · 13/01/2016 08:53

The fact the programme prompted this thread. And the fact this thread lead to people learning about the Milgram Experiment (also worthy of mention, is the Stanford Experiment means that in some sense it was a valuable piece of television.

I can only hope a wide public knowledge of such things make the horrors of last century impossible to repeat.

Hihohoho1 · 13/01/2016 08:53

Totally and utterly agree op.

Watched it last night with my teenagers and although it was interesting and provoked a discussion we all thought it was one step too far.

The car crash thing was awful.

What I hated most was Derren smiling while watching people obviously traumatised.

Bullying and distasteful.

KittyandTeal · 13/01/2016 08:54

There's tonnes of actually, real psychological research done on social compliance and obedience. The studies were all done a fair time ago now...because you'd never be allowed to replicate them under modern ethical guidelines.

That's says a lot about the 'experiment' I'd say

Jux · 13/01/2016 08:57

I stopped watching when he got that guy to believe he'd committed murder. That was a while ago.

DB went too far quite a long time ago.

moopymoodle · 13/01/2016 09:03

I knew he wouldn't push him!! He cared too much regarding the 'dead' man's dignity. Most of us can be swayed socially but not deeply when it comes to morals. The others were most likely actors.

Arfarfanarf · 13/01/2016 09:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

funnybeanz · 13/01/2016 10:05

Chris is not an actor, I'd have thought that was obvious last night I could tell the actors from Chris, in particular the woman who kept coming into the room to pass on messages seemed particularly wooden I thought. Anyway Chris is just a normal bloke, honestly. But he did put himself up for this by auditioning though!

budgiegirl · 13/01/2016 10:23

Chris is not an actor

I can believe that he was not an actor, mostly because he didn't go through with it. But I do believe that the other three were actors. It was meant to shock us, to think that someone would go to those lengths through compliance. But actually, I don't think anyone did go to those lengths.

It's TV entertainment. It's not real. I would have a lot more respect for it if it had been carried out by a scientist, and not just an entertainer.

I do think it raised some important points though.

OurBlanche · 13/01/2016 10:28

So he was a true participant and not a confederate.

It is just entertainment.

WahhHelpMe · 13/01/2016 13:33

The way DB chooses his participants i think I'd be more excited if I were " turned down" as that's how they seem to be picked, and if it were real I would imagine the first forms they sign would have to waive their right to sue, decisions on whether you are suitable may be altered later on etc

SmillasSenseOfSnow · 13/01/2016 13:57

Is there an element of fear surrounding this programme? That, if it's 'real' or as Derren says it is, then a large number of us could actually be manipulated into doing horrific things comparatively easily.
that's not a comfortable thought, so it's perhaps easier to dismiss the programme outright.

The phenomenon is absolutely real, despite what many would like to believe. Similarly they did some studies of people who worked on the concentration camps and the fact that they weren't the ones actually pressing the button to flood chambers with gas etc. meant that they simply distanced themselves. That and Hitler and (I think) Himmler publically claimed sole responsibility for the extermination of the people in the camps, allowing everyone else to shrug off responsibility in their own minds and carry on.

That doesn't mean the things shown on the programme happened the way they are being portrayed to have happened.

ChiefClerkDrumknott · 13/01/2016 15:42

(Copied from another thread because I haven't anything different to say)

I've seen him live several times and he's a fantastic performer. As others has said, he emphasises that he's not psychic, he's not controlling people and it's not magic. I think his point with programmes like this, whether they're real or fake, is to raise awareness in the audience that we are susceptible to manipulation and suggestion. He makes a point of saying this at the end. I think the programme is fake but that's kind of his point - trust no one Grin

His live show, on the other hand... The only logical explanation is that he's a wizard!

GarlicBake · 13/01/2016 15:57

I'm envious, Chief! Am a huge fan.

TiffanyAtBreakfast · 13/01/2016 16:01

I don't think the main guy was a hired actor, but I do think he knew he was on a DB programme while it was all happening. There's absolutely no way someone could die in front of you and you'd be okay with a) not calling an ambulance, b) pretending to be the dead guy and making a speech or c) helping to put the dead body in a CRATE... All just to save a charity fundraiser event! Just no way.

OurBlanche · 13/01/2016 16:08

It won't be long before the 'How I did it' video is available.

I used all of them, at one time or another, when teaching.

The Heist was a favourite example for Psych A Levels. You can hang a lot of studies of that programme - and many of his others.

The 6 winning horses was my all time favourite. It took me longer to work out how many participants he started with than it did to work out how he did it!

Sallystyle · 13/01/2016 16:12

It was pretty scary. If it was real how the fuck will the pushers feel? Knowing that you killed someone? Obviously no one was killed but they didn't know that. Knowing I was capable of killing someone due to pressure is something that would haunt me for life. I can't see how it is any way ethical, so I hope the pushers were fake.

A lot of it just doesn't add up, the reactions were not very realistic, even up to the pushes. Also, I'm pretty sure if I thought I had just killed someone and Derren came on I would probably be hysterical and both hug and punch him, their reactions just seemed so unreal. But then again, I guess there is no right way to act after you thought you just killed someone.

ChiefClerkDrumknott · 13/01/2016 16:14

I'm envious, Chief! Am a huge fan.

I've seen him 4 times now and I wouldn't normally go back to see someone that often. I'm not that captivated by his TV shows in general, although I do enjoy them, but the live shows are something else. He's doing another tour this year, I highly recommend going if you can make it: 2016 wizardry

OurBlanche · 13/01/2016 16:49

He uses the same routines that spiritualists and mediums use. It is quite easy to do. I have posted before about being persuaded into being 'Madame Zelda' for a village fete. I read a book, DSis and I practiced for a week or so, and went on stage, we were quite good.

So that part of the show is all down to preparation and very, very old 'cold reading' techniques.

The rest is down to people going along with the show, agreeing to become confederates. Or being too scared once the legal threats start to roll in.

A quick Google will find you quite a few sites that debunk him. They aren't all that interesting, what is interesting is that there is a pattern to the responses:

A question is posed.. how did that happen
An answer is given: well, it was fun, I knew what I was doing but it seemed polite to go along with it. He started off 'hypnotising' me, but soon changed to just giving me directions, which I followed
Someone comes along who knows a participant, they really didn't know how that happened, then
Someone argues that that is a daft thing to say and that person insists they know someone but that they won't talk about it.

If the site has too many identifying features it disappears as the legal threats roll in

If it hasn't got too many identifying features more and more weird, hate filled posts arrive. As do more people who have been on or know someone who has but are really vague about the experience.

All in all, it is, as you might imagine, nothing more than a bloody good wheeze, some old fashioned carny tricks, a well thought out story line and a host of good lawyers.

What else would it be?

Magic?

SmillasSenseOfSnow · 13/01/2016 18:36

What else would it be?

Magic?

Surely the subject being discussed is whether this was a true example of compliance/authority in action or whether it was staged to inform about it and shock?

No-one actually believes anything he does is magic do they? He's spent enough time stressing that it isn't and explaining how it's done...

ChiefClerkDrumknott · 13/01/2016 20:45

All in all, it is, as you might imagine, nothing more than a bloody good wheeze, some old fashioned carny tricks, a well thought out story line and a host of good lawyers.

Yes, he tells you this himself Wink

SisterMoonshine · 13/01/2016 22:05

"I can only hope a wide public knowledge of such things make the horrors of last century impossible to repeat."

The Milgram experiment definately taps into something the public want to believe, which is why it was believed so easily and unquestioningly.
Same with the Stanford one.

OurBlanche · 14/01/2016 15:55

Yes, he tells you this himself

That is what gets him his believers, I think. His absolute, upfront, 'honesty'.

It can be seen, measured, proved seen - that's the whole point of the 'how I did it' videos. It sucks in the unwary and convinces them of the veracity of the bit where he does lie, mislead, cheat.

He is bloody good at it. But he does, using the magic of television, lie to the audience in the end.

Smilla everything I have posted has explained why, without question, it is staged. That last statement was a joke...

OurBlanche · 14/01/2016 15:56

Sorry, Chief. I meant to add a smile or a wink back to you Smile

SmillasSenseOfSnow · 14/01/2016 16:40

Smilla everything I have posted has explained why, without question, it is staged. That last statement was a joke...

The fact that you rounded off your post with it made me interpret your whole post as a somewhat generic 'Derren Brown is not magic' post that didn't really deal with the topic under discussion and could have been used for any of the older programmes, but not so much this one. If he pretends to be causing people to 'kill' others by use of magic in this particular programme rather than simply claiming it's all down to genuine unstaged compliance/authority then apologies, it now makes more sense.

OurBlanche · 14/01/2016 16:51

Tis the curse of the written word. Smile

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