To think my son should not be forced to do a full GCSE in religious education

[ReallyTired]

He would far rather do GCSE music. He had done RE since he was five. Surely an extra two years is not going to increase his knowledge of other religions that much.

No. It's not a 'faith lobby'.

It's the status quo of a Christian country (in governmental terms and 60% of the population identifying as Christian (census). And a further 15% with other religions. (And those figures were after some fairly determined internet pro-secular campaigning in 2011).

The "elephant" is perhaps the reality of an anti-religious lobby group failing to make much headway.

"The classes and GCSE are offered to all pupils
but so is the opt out form
and for those who opt out, alternate courses are offered"

Yes, but those might not be alternative GCSEs (as they won't have the flex in the timetabling). For OP, it would mean he doesn't have to take RE, but can't get another choice instead.

Most schools do not have a large number of pupils who opt out. Declining to participate is there as an option and is simply not chosen.

"The "elephant" is perhaps the reality of an anti-religious lobby group failing to make much headway."

It's not an anti religious lobby- it's a "choice" lobby.

Oh, and more accurate surveys show that it's actually 48% of the population who actively identify as Christian.

But why is RE in schools anything to do specifically with Christianity, anyway? Surely it's about looking at religion and faith generally?

But that still doesn't answer the following questions:

What is the value of an easy GCSE (if RE is a good GCSE to take because it is so easy)?

What if you want to do a harder GCSE/choose a different humanities subject?

If RE is taught because 'we are a Christian country', that doesn't have much to do with tolerance (and as far as I know The GCSE doesn't particularly focus on Christianity).

I went to a school with its own chapel but nobody had to take RE GCSE.

Nobody has said anything to convince me that compulsory RE GCSE isn't a cost cutting, grade inflating exercise.

I'd always take the census results over an opinion survey.

And there is choice - the opt out.

If that was widely used, then any debate would be quite different than in a situation where people aren't exercising that choice.

RS is on the Trinity List as a facilitating subject, it's not considered 'easy' for university entry.

But yes, how individual schools arrange their exam subject choices varies, and in some schools there will always be impossible combinations.

I'm only saying it's easy because others have used that as an argument for taking it.

The census is irrelevant because religious education is not supposed to teach you how to be a good Christian. It is a study of comparative faiths that would be as relevant in a mainly atheist country.

However, it is not more relevant than geography or history and, assuming a good choice of sciences and languages, how can you make one GCSE humanity compulsory over others without being overly restrictive?

meditrina
DDs GCSE that she took instead of RE was Latin
DSs GCSE that he is taking instead of RE is Computing
both of which will be a darned sight more use to them later in life than RE

Quite honestly, apart from it being compulsory or not, it's an easy subject for schools to get good results in, helps the league tables, and timetabling wise, as "the majority" take it, there isn't room in the timetable to specifically cater for a smaller number of students not to take it and slot in whatever they would like to take; I'm not saying I am in agreement, but the reality is that timetabling / room occupancy / class size and specialised "rooms" and resources are at a premium. (Yep, I'm a timetabling person - in university, but principles are the same). Depressing eh?

I wouldn't take the census results as a true reflection of whether we are a truly Christian country, because so many people tick the box for "C of E" without thinking about it. If the question was along the lines of "Do you actively practise a religion? If so, which?", the answers would be very different.

Quite honestly, apart from it being compulsory or not, it's an easy subject for schools to get good results in, helps the league tables

But again, if this opinion is widely held do universities really value it? Particularly faced with student 'a' who had to drop a subject to do RE and student 'b' who was able to make more relevant choices.

I think RE was traditionally considered a facilitating subject but has become extremely dumbed down in recent years. Lots of sitting around waffling vaguely about subjects which students have almost no factual knowledge of. And vague "craft" type projects. And watching TV in class.

"A Head of RE once recounted to me how at the start of year INSET, her headteacher had given her a bottle of wine and praised her. The reason for this was that both she personally and also her RE department, had achieved the best GCSE residuals in the school. Requests to observe her soon poured in from other teachers asking ‘how do you get such great results in an hour a week?’ ‘How do you get the children so engaged in your subject?’

"After weeks of dodging observation requests, and pretending that she possessed some sort of magic beans, she decided to come clean. Whenever a colleague asked if they could observe her GCSE lessons, she gave them an exam paper and mark scheme and told them that if they still wanted to watch her after reading it, they would be welcome. No one came. ...

"Courses which are ‘accessible’ (by which I mean easy) and ‘relevant’ (by which I mean don’t have much to do with religion) have masked a multitude of sins. Entry numbers have remained healthy, but pupils have remained religiously illiterate. Pupils have achieved A*s, but no real knowledge of religion."

www.reonline.org.uk/news/think-piece-thoughts-on-the-gcse-re-proposals-david-ashton/

See also these blog posts which describe the dumbed-down nature of current RE in more specific details.

thegoldencalfre.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/why-gcse-religious-education-fails-pupils/
thegoldencalfre.wordpress.com/2015/04/01/why-are-we-watching-shrek/
thegoldencalfre.wordpress.com/2014/10/27/the-banality-of-fun/

I teach my daughter knowledge about world religions at home, and would continue to do so even if we were in the UK, because I know perfectly well that unless she attended a fantastic private school (or a VERY exceptional state school) it is unlikely that the school would be equipping her with a proper knowledge of the religions of our world.

I'd always take the census results over an opinion survey

for obvious reasons!

And there is choice - the opt out

Yep- the standard response of the faith lobby. Our needs and wants take priority- if you don't like it, just wait outside til we're finished.

Bertrand
You know full well my views on God Botherers.

The opt out works perfectly well if used to the advantage of all pupils and teachers.
Sadly there are far to many Faith Schools (overt or covert)
and the Academy programme - whereby the National Curriculum is an irrelevance - means that best practice is no longer shared.

I'm glad my kids are at the end of the treadmill and feel very worried for my nieces and nephews.

The opt out is choice. Choice that parents do not have for the vast majority of subjects.

If you do not want to take the subject, you do not have to. At any age in the school career.

No other subject (except SRE) is optional to this extent, or for the entirety of the compulsory education years.

Opt out is notchoice. In some schools, opting out of RE would mean getting one less GCSE.

Having RE as an option and not giving it special status is "choice"

You can opt out of re. You have to do it formally in writing.
They are required to do re at ks4 unless you opt out.
Of course that still doesn't mean he can do all the options he wants due to time tabling etc but worth a go
The school will probably insist on a humanity as now that's part of the ebec.
(Blame the government !)

Of course you can opt out. Although I suspect many people don't know this- it's not widely known.

But that's not the point. RE should not have a special status that history or geography doesn't have.

No response to whether this is a faith school. Which makes me think perhaps it is then. In which case putting your DC into a faith school for whatever reason and then complaining about RE makes no sense. The UK is lucky to have a wide set of options available for learners so he can do Drama at college. & he's still young, there's a world of educational opportunities for him to explore out there

All schools will have some GCSE subjects which they can't offer in combination. No school can offer everything as an option. It would be impossible to timetable.
My DD didn't have a choice on RE either, and couldn't fit in music and drama although she wanted to do both. FWIW the drama course ended up largely taken up with non-academic kids who thought it would be an easy option (it isn't) and many of the keener drama students became discouraged by the messing about and dropped it. DD loves drama and wants a theatre career eventually but does drama extra-curricularly with like minded people. The teaching is excellent and the GCSE is not required to study Drama at A level.
The RE she is doing is largely philosophy, ethics and morality of different religions and cultures and surprisingly (to her and us) she is really enjoying it. They have covered various topics, abortion, death penalty, monogamy and others looking at the different philosophical viewpoints and religious ones. Lots of class discussion, lots of essay opportunity. She wouldn't have chosen it if it had been an option but is glad now that she is doing it.

"She wouldn't have chosen it if it had been an option but is glad now that she is doing it."

That's not the point!

mistressdeecee
No response to whether this is a faith school. Which makes me think perhaps it is then.
Probably not.
I know lots of community schools who have heads who cannot think outside the box so make it compulsory.
And in many parts of the country there are so few schools available that there is no real choice

That's not the point!

True, but with the fact that the RE GCSE isn't largely about learning about other religions which the OP says her son already knows enough about, but about philosophy, ethics and the process of argument coupled with the information that drama is better studied outside school if it is a genuine interest I thought it might be helpful information.....particularly as we were in an essentially similar situation with options two years ago and had to choose between music and drama.

Studying re to year 11 is compulsory in all state schools- not just faith schools. The faith school issue is irrelevant.

We have a state religion.

No, the UK has an established religion.
There is a significant difference.

KSA has a state religion, as does Iran for example
the UK does not.