To hate my sister

[pandarific]

...right now. She's always been a nightmare, and a lot of my childhood was listening to her screaming for what she wanted/didn't want etc. My mother used to say 'she rules the roost' - ignoring the fact that she as the adult allowed it to continue. When my parents broke up I was left with my mother and her, and the screaming just continued and continued. I am visiting my home country for Christmas and can't just leave, feel shit and trapped.

Last year, she screamed through the whole Christmas break, constantly picking fights about nothing, just wanting attention and to defend this bizarre persecution complex she has - everyone is always horrible and terrible to her. She is an adult woman (29), but acts like a tantrumming child. When she's not tantrumming, she's babbling constantly, demanding your attention so you listen to whatever she wants to tell you, just monologues of crap - this guy she dated who was horrible to her, her struggles learning to drive - just on and on, regardless of whether you want to listen or not.

Due to not wanting to listen to a ten minute monologue (I said politely 'I'm just watching this film at the moment, why don't you tell us over dinner'), more screaming and shouting. Everyone else is always wrong, she is always right. There was more screaming earlier because I was lying down having a nap, she was packing in the same room - my mother says 'Isn't panda trying to have a cue in there?' - cue screaming, shouting for 10 minutes, how DARE she be accused of being selfish, rant rant rant.

I mentioned that in the next few years, I and my partner (he couldn't come visiting with me this year) will be hopefully having a baby - cue rant that she'd always wanted to live near me, and wah wah I'll need to move 'home'. I have had previous emotional manipulation from my mother who would love me to move back to home country, which I have nipped in the bud, but to get it from my sister is really galling. She is obsessed with keeping things 'the same' and has been talking about doing holiday things 'every year' - attempting to control everyone.

She is the most selfish person I have ever met and is possessive of me - when I call her on her appalling behaviour, she accuses my mother of poisoning me against her. It's her own foul behaviour that does that! Yesterday during (yet another) row, she told me when my parents are gone, it will be just her and me so I will HAVE to have a relationship with her and will NEED her. FFS.

Last year was a million times worse - I texted her before I came this year telling her that if she did the same again this year it'd ruin our relationship and she has been a bit better to be fair, but I'm just knackered being around a psycho. I confided to my mother that I am actually worried about having a child as my grandmother was so similar - could be really vicious, incredibly controlling and rigid - what if my child is like this? Being a massive shithead seems to run in my family :( :(

I am going on hol on the 31st (which in itself caused massive upheaval - 'WHAT? But it's CHRISTMAS' etc etc complete with criticism of my destination), am about to pour myself a massive gin and I've got my silicone earplugs in until I watch the bake off... I'm just knackered - I hate this shit.

[MoMoTy]

She sounds nasty. Distance yourself from her.

[Chopz]

Was she the black sheep as a child? Slightly different from the rest of you and generally looked down upon/dismissed. She sounds very unhappy, sensitive and outspoken.

Is there any chance she has undiagnosed SEN? The fact she wants to control her environment and keep everything the same makes me consider this.

She sounds like an unhappy teen. Firstly I would try love bombing and acceptance/non judgementalness, treasuring her and giving your time freely. If that failed it might be worth going no contact if you really can't cope.

[pandarific]

Chopz She was indulged in every way as a child. She was a bit sickly (asthma, allergies etc) and the youngest. My mum babied her massively.

[Sallyhasleftthebuilding]

Have you recorded any of this to show her?
DD 10.is like this - way over the top demamding attention seeking - etc

She has red mist moments and doesnt remember what ahes done or said. Filming her really shows her what shes like.
Hoping she grows out of it - pass the vodka -

[NettleTea]

she sounds as if she may have PDA or a personality disorder
previously it was suggested that children with PDA went on to develop personality disorders as adults, but now it is more often recognised that it was a lack of diagnosis and subsequent support of the right kind that caused a trauma significant enough to have PDA AND a personality disorder concurrently.

The fact that there was another member of the family who had similar traits further adds to the potential ASD diagnosis.

My daughter was only diagnosed this year at 15, and turns alot of her traits inwards, so it didnt really combust until she moved to secondary school, whereas most are far more explosive in their behaviour.

The significant factors here are the outbursts, the need to be in control, the possessiveness and obsessional behaviour, the lack of responsibility, the ongoing behavioural issues, talking non stop without realising others are bored, in fact her whole behaviour sounds like the PDA checklist!
Does she work? manage to hold down education, perform self care?

[Goingtobeawesome]

Nothing will change while everyone panders to her. I suspect if you stood up to her others would follow and then maybe your sister would grow up.

Being depressed doesn't make you act like a bitch .

[Squashybanana]

I was going to say, sounds like autism (PDA part of the autism spectrum) in females. Clues, misreading of social situations so completely that she is wrongfooted when challenged, monologuing, external locus of control, rigid behaviours. Is she very interested in something, a soap opera/ TV show, or a particular person, or animals / horses/ literature (most common obsessions in females).

With the mindset that her behaviour is not deliberately annoying, you may start to feel differently towards her. You are the lucky one, you know, living your own life with a partner and full social understanding. See if any of these features rings a bell (no one person would have all of these features!)
taniaannmarshall.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/moving-towards-a-female-profile-the-unique-characteristics-abilities-and-talents-of-asperwomen-adult-women-with-asperger-syndrome/

[pandarific]

NettleTea to 1) yes-ish - she's been unemployed for a while due to circs outside her control 2) yes-ish - she 'took a year out' about 2-3 times but has completed 3rd level 3) the only way in which she doesn't is being a massively untidy slob - her room is and always has been a bomb site, everything on the floor, etc.

Your post made me feel slightly sick - I feel like I'm clinging to the hope it isn't genetic. I want to have a baby soon and I just can't think about it being inherited. I just couldn't cope with it - I can't even cope right now.

[pandarific]

On further reflection, I don't think so - she IS aware of when you don't want to listen to her. She just really doesn't care - her right to speak and talk trumps your right not to listen, iykwim?

So it's not as if she's unaware - she's fully aware. She just doesn't care!

[pandarific]

Squashybanana it's not that the behaviour is annoying, it's abusive. I'm talking about the screaming, shouting, name-calling. If it was not understanding I'd be much more sympathetic, but she just honestly thinks everyone else is abusive to her and she is 'sticking up for herself'.

[pandarific]

I've just read back my responses and I'm sorry if I've been unkind or upset anyone. I'm just struggling a bit to process.

And Christmas dinner is in a bit and 20 quid it's all going to kick off again.

[knobblyknee]

Throw your shoe at her and stay in a hotel. If it were me I would have lured her outside on some pretext and shut the door.

[SisterViktorine]

None of us can dx your sister. Although, that said, I'm not sure it sounds like autism, which I do know a bit about.

However, thinking of it as some kind of additional need that she has may help you to cope with her behaviours.

With respect to your own DC, if they do have any neurological differences (which can occur in any family), and you go into it with a good understanding and ready to provide support they would not necessarily end up as lacking in self-regulation as your sister sounds.

[theycallmemellojello]

She sounds like she has quite serious mh problems. Can you encourage her to seek help? It must be very difficult for your dm to live with her. Does your dm have a support network?

[pandarific]

My dad is probably the second half of the 'support network' but he works away mon to fri so it's just her. She has got a job and l is moving out of my mums to start work 4th Jan. I am however a bit concerned as she said she is 'just bringing a weekend bag'. I reckon she'll be back every weekend and try to move right back in once the contract ends. I think this would be an awful idea a) as their relationship has already deteriorated enough and b) being responsible for herself and her own decisions would be good for her.

[Squashybanana]

Sister Victorine I agree none of us can diagnose, its a question of raising ideas for OP to consider. I disagree that it doesn't sound like autism, which comes in many forms. For what it's worth I also know a bit about it, as I work on an autism diagnostic panel.

OP, all autistic people have certain things in common which manifest in different ways in different people. These are

Differences in social interaction compared with typical people
Differences in social communication compared with typical people and
Difficulty with flexible thinking (ie dislike change, prefer routines and things done in a certain way, trouble viewing things from alternative viewpoints).

Although it isn't diagnostic, most autistic people also have differences in their sensory processing; they may find noise, smells or colours difficult, dislike noisy busy spaces, etc.

Fwiw, it sounds like it may be genetic whether or not its autism if there are people from other generations with similar issues. That doesn't mean the story has to be the same. My father and sister are undiagnosed aspies and 'difficult' people. When of with my first I remember thinking I don't care what he is like as long as he isn't like my father. Of course he is a carbon copy of dad! The difference is that he is diagnosed and knoiws that actually it isn't the rest of the world that is wrong, it's that he has a different brain. I love him very much. He is being sdlowlky painstakingly taught what doesn't come naturally. It isn't easy but the story is changing because of his understanding of himself. My dad of course has not introspected as a result of my son's diagnosis and wonders where this autism fad comes from and why my son is so highly strung!

[Squashybanana]

BTW my 50 year old sister (aspie) also still mostly lives at home, she has her own room there and works away in the week but views mum and Dad as her support and their home as her home.

[Galvanised]

I think it does sound like autism, with possibly adhd, which is present in up to 30% of ASD cases. She might well be aware of her behaviour but at the same time not able to stop herself.
Women present differently to men, the stereotype is based on boys/men with ASD (and tends not to include the adhd element), so can be misleading.
ADHD doesn't always involve hyperactivity either, but there tends to be a serious lack of organisational stills.

[Galvanised]

Skills

[NettleTea]

it sounds a fair bit like my daughter when in majorly stress mode, or how I imagine she could have ended up had we not had a diagnosis, right down to the good personal hygiene/bomb site bedroom.

Also the erratic work pattern, and dropping in and out of education yet being fairly high achieving.

ASD, especially in women, doesnt manifest the way people think it should. Its not like the male stereotypes.

[pandarific]

Meh, you know what? It's not really my problem, is it? Not my circus, not my monkeys!

I also don't think it's autism as She has no trouble around people she isn't related to and in fact is off out tonight to bars with a friend. And is currently being nice as pie.

I'm going to offer to host next year I think, or at least not come back to Ireland. It's just not worth the stress.

And thanks for those who reassured me that even if my child was non-NT, there's no reason they wouldn't be a lovely, sweet human being also.

[NettleTea]

and my daughter also has ADD - attention deficit disorder, without the hyperactivity.

[pandarific]

Am currently plotting to host xmas next year, serve curry and put everyone up in a B and B.

[NettleTea]

again - my daughter is nice as pie around friends or people she wants to impress. But it takes effort. Alot of effort. And her behaviour is 100% worse at home after she has done it. I say that people outside the immediate family either see her performance of the wonderful version of herself, or they dont see her at all, because she wont go out if she cant guarantee that she knows everything will be good.

It may not be your monkey, and I can certainly understand your reluctance to take responsibility for it, and how exhausting and distressing it is to be in the firing line. My son also has mild aspergers and finds his sister really traumatising at times. And I have been to breaking point and back on many occassions, especially prior to diagnosis when we didnt know if she was just being manipulative and abusive, or if there was something going on underneath it all. Your parents obviously get no respite from it at all, and probably as her safe place, risk facing the worse of her behaviour if it IS ASD. They may appreciate a different view that may not hold them to blame, and may relieve them of some of the fear and guilt they possibly have from how she has turned out. Its really not easy if it is ASD.

Also she probably isnt too happy herself. So whether you wish to distance yourself or not, it may be worth passing the information on to your parents - they live with this day in and day out and may have more of an insight to it. It could well be something that is transformational for all of them.

[WhereYouLeftIt]

"She's always been a nightmare, and a lot of my childhood was listening to her screaming for what she wanted/didn't want etc. My mother used to say 'she rules the roost' - ignoring the fact that she as the adult allowed it to continue"
Well there's your diagnosis - your mother taught her right from the start that screaming for what she wanted, would work. Surprise surprise, she learned that lesson and has continued the same ever since.

Your adult sister's behaviour is the rod your mother made for her own back. You can refuse to be beaten with it. And yes, you can tell your sister to fuck the fuck off. Use this 'holiday' to learn from. You NEVER let yourself be in a position that you can't remove yourself from, e.g. don't stay at your parents, shell out for a hotel.

I'd probably have throttled her by now.