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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is this casual racism? Along the lines of ching chong jokes?

614 replies

Cimcardishan · 24/12/2015 22:12

I'm BBC (British born Chinese) and feel that it seems more permissible to be casually racist about Chinese than other racial groups. A few years ago there used to be a Chinese tea advert with a kung fu monk and really bad accent which just felt wrong to me. I don't think that kind of advert would have been made about jerk chicken or naan bread for example.

Someone just posted on my FB jokes with Chinese accent, one liners, eg.Tie my shoe Tai Mai Shu

OK, thats pretty rubbish but it was a long list of them. It wasn't to me personally.

I found it old fashioned and un PC. I feel if someone posted this with Jamaican or Indian accents it would be disapproved of.

Am I being oversensitive?

OP posts:
Iggi999 · 27/12/2015 22:16

Horror, shock! With my friends and family I tell racist, homophobic, sexist jokes, and we all find them funny. We even tell rape jokes
I have literally no one in my life who would behave that way, and my personal opinion is that anyone who does is low life and best avoided as friends or as employees.

fakenamefornow · 27/12/2015 22:29

Gummydrops

It's racist to ask where somebody is from?

Also what if somebody isn't pretending they can't pronounce your name, they really have difficulties pronouncing your name, they are also racist?

Iggi999 · 27/12/2015 22:48

After such a heartfelt post from Gummy you ask those inane questions? You should take a long hard look at yourself.

FlatOnTheHill · 27/12/2015 22:57

Aurynne
Reading these comments are unbelievable. Only one person on here who stands out for me in making any sense of all this so called racist shit and thats you Aurynne. You are absolutely spot on. People need to lighten up and stop being offended at the slightest little thing. Its those that are offended on behalf of others that cause so much trouble.

drspouse · 27/12/2015 23:00

It's racist to ask where somebody is from?

If they are plainly from the same country as you and from the same country you are in, yes. If you want to know whether they are originally from the city you are both living in, ask that. If you want to know where their great grandparents were born (though why would you? unless maybe you've met them and they mentioned "when they came to London/Manchester/England) then maybe ask that.

But if you and the person you are talking to were both born in Britain, and you both have British accents, then asking "where are you from" implies that YOU are from "here" but THEY are not from "here".

If you don't know where they were born, and you're desperate to know (but again, why would you be? it's not a normal conversation opener) then ask that question.

You get extra racism points if you follow up the answer "London" or "Manchester" with "no but where are you REALLY from".

If I'm talking to someone who clearly has a non-British accent (or a non-Northern accent as I live in the North of England) I do occasionally ask "have you lived in X town long?". If they do have a Northern accent then I might ask "are you originally from X town?".

BrandNewAndImproved · 27/12/2015 23:05

No I don't agree with that ^^

I live in a city, when I meet new people/colleagues and we are chatting I often ask where are they from/what area do they live. It's not an unusual question or a question I've never had asked of me. I also get asked and ask what school do my dc go to, do I know so and so if I live in the same area as them, do I know the street they live on blablabla.

That doesn't make me racist ffs and I'd ask anyone no matter colour or accent. If you were white and had a northern, Scottish, Welsh accent you'd be asked about that so what's wrong with asking about a Jamaican one!

FlatOnTheHill · 27/12/2015 23:14

Drspouse
Your comment was hilarious. That is a lot of peoples point of how ridiculous this has all become. Cant ask this, cant ask that. Glad you have explained and given examples on how silly and pathetic it has all become.

aurynne · 27/12/2015 23:34

Yes, I do find jokes about stutterers funny, when told in a group of friends where no one stutters. That is the difference between humour and actual bullying/abuse to a real person. And although my best friend died in a car accident, I still find car accident jokes funny. Precisely because I do not project, and I am able to see those jokes are not about me, about my friends or about anyone I know. They are jokes about non-existing caricatures of people.

Unlike some of the people in this thread, who for some reason equal making a generic joke with bullying a person with disabilities, or raping someone, or wish that someone dies (there are heaps of jokes about people falling off windows... it must surely mean people who tell them would secretly love to push someone out of a window), some people know that humour is about absurdity. That there are no limits in humour so long as people involved in the joke telling share the same sense of it. I would not tell particular jokes to some people, because I know they would not understand them, like them or find them funny. But with my best friends and family, precisely because we share a sense of humour, we have no limits in what we joke about.

Some of you would never be friends with me? Thank fuck, I would never ever change the massive amount of laughter and smiles in my life for a dull one with someone I am scared of opening my mouth with, for fear they will find whatever I say offensive.

FlatOnTheHill · 27/12/2015 23:36

Aurynne
Well said.

Iggi999 · 27/12/2015 23:39

You would tell a joke about stuttering, after making sure no one present stutters?
And you have no sense at all that this contributes to making life worse for those people?

Iggi999 · 27/12/2015 23:40

Thank fuck you two are not representative of most people on mumsnet.

aurynne · 27/12/2015 23:41

(oh, and my friend who had breast cancer found I was the one and only person she could fall over with laughter. I made cancer jokes with her. She fucking LOVED them. I bet people on this thread would have found that terribly offensive on her behalf...)

Iggi999 · 27/12/2015 23:48

That's worlds away from making jokes about stutterers with non-stutterers though. I don't think you are going to get it.

FlatOnTheHill · 27/12/2015 23:50

My friends step dad went into hospital and came out with all his toes removed. Long story and booze related!
When I went round their house to visit they were all taking this piss and laughing. Including her step dad who was laughing that at least his wife (my mates mum) wouldnt find his picked toe nails under the sofa cushions anymore. People need to lighten up

claig · 27/12/2015 23:53

YANBU.

It is in poor taste. I think the people making those jokes are not racist per se but think they are being funny.

Amara123 · 28/12/2015 00:13

To be honest I just find those kinds of jokes indicative of someone with not a lot going on upstairs. If someone makes those kinds of jokes I find an excuse to leave their company. I manage to joke around and have fun with my friends without making jokes about marginalised groups...it's just weird..like playground bully territory.
I am Irish. When I lived in England I absolutely hated when people did fake Irish accents. A colleague at work wouldn't do tasks for me unless I said potatoes a few times. In my last work review I was told I was excellent but they would prefer if my accent was less Irish. I was told a few times I was an ignorant paddy (I have 3 degrees). These jokes are wearisome. For the poster who said her and her colleagues take the mickey out of their Irish colleague for her accent, try and see it from her point of view. She is in a foreign country with an office of people who are ganging up and laughing at something fundamental to her identity. I like her always tried to laugh it off, because I simply did not know how to deal with it. But ask yourself what phrases are you mimicking in her accent- are they literate incisive comments or something like "an ignorant paddy" with a penchant for booze and potatoes would say?

FlatOnTheHill · 28/12/2015 00:18

Amara
I was the one with the Irish colleague. We take the piss out of her Irish accent and she takes the piss out of our Essex accents. We sit at work taking the piss out of each other and we all have such a good laugh at each other. Its in jest. If some people were not so serious and had a joke back then the world would be a better place and all those silly people would not be offended for offended sake.

Amara123 · 28/12/2015 00:29

So my feelings of being put in my place were silly? Right.....

But would you feel 100% confident you could go to your colleague and ask her if she was 100% happy with all of the jokes that were made about her accent and get an answer that she was all of the time? Listen I see how the discussion is going on this thread- someone says they have been offended by comments and a few posters are saying it's just in fun and for those who don't find it funny to get a sense of humour. Kind of cyclical. But it strikes me that those who are making those jokes are thinking more of themselves than the comfort of others e.g. It is more important I get a paddy joke in than it is that I avoid potentially offending someone. Why is this kind of fun so important to you?

I'm leaving this post as my last as I have to hit the hay. But I do ask people to be considerate of others. Have your fun but try and be inclusive! There are other jokes to make. ; )

FlatOnTheHill · 28/12/2015 00:36

Amara
Lighten up for goodness sake.
Did you ask me if I was happy having the piss taken out of my Essex accent?
My colleague is more than happy. And I am more than happy. We love taking the piss out of each other. It brightens up a boring day in the office.

Amara123 · 28/12/2015 00:46

No I won't lighten up. It is my right to feel as I feel and I understand how I feel very well. I had 10 years of those kinds of experiences which made me uncomfortable.

But I suppose you realise that much of these things are a matter of context. You are an Essex lady who I presume works in Essex with an office of mostly Essex people. Your Irish colleague is a minority.

But if you found her piss taking of your accent offensive and weird you should tell her. You are entitled not to be made uncomfortable at work. But what I am asking you is could you imagine that someone in your colleagues shoes might not feel able to? Would you ask her to lighten up too?

Your colleague may not have any problem, but what I am asking is could you imagine someone might? And is it worth risking it? I

CastaDiva · 28/12/2015 00:51

Flat, with respect, you (presumably) come from this country, and have one of this country's regional accents, so you're on pretty firm home ground, and with no parity with regards to the colleague you are so absolutely certain is having a gay old time having the piss taken out of the way she speaks, by multiple colleagues, on a daily basis.

Irish people have been on the receiving end of an entire history of Irish 'jokes' and stereotyping as ignorant, violent, superstitious, gullible etc etc in this country, and have the poorest mental and physical health of almost any immigrant ethnic group in the UK - maybe ask yourself whether there might be a link. And whether you are so utterly, utterly certain your colleague sees it all as just as much of a jolly jape as you do.

Or could it possibly be that taking the piss out of your accent is the only way she feels she can respond to the continual mocking of her speech, given how ready you've been to trot out the 'lighten up' and 'silly people are offended' lines? Maybe she doesn't want several colleagues all taking against her because she 'can't take a joke'?

FlatOnTheHill · 28/12/2015 00:55

It boils down to whether you have a sense of humour or not.
And whether you take yourself to seriously and are precious.
Being nasty to someone is downright wrong. But.....
Having a bit if banter over each others accents is not offensive.

FlatOnTheHill · 28/12/2015 01:01

Casta
Trust me she is the one that started it all. With all the TOWIE jokes etc. thats where all the piss taking started from.
Shes been in UK for 15 years and is brilliant fun. We socialise out of work too.
She phones me and speaks Essex accent and reply back in Irish accent. Its called having a laugh. All innocent fun.

CastaDiva · 28/12/2015 01:03

No, it all boils down to whether you have the basic sensitivity to recognise that multiple people who are from a country taking the piss out of the accent of a single foreign colleague on a daily basis -- and refusing to recognise that it's perfectly possible she experiences this as somewhere between mildly irritating and outright bullying, but is afraid to say so, because of exactly the kind of attitude you have just displayed - is not about 'having a sense of humour'.

And if I had ten pence for every time I heard the 'bit of banter' or 'no sense of humour' or 'being precious' line trotted out to cover racist, sexist, ageist stereotyping crap, I'd be very, very rich. Basically, your colleague has to prove herself one of the lads, or according to you she's 'precious' and 'has no sense of humour'. Which is exactly why she won't say anything, whatever she actually feels about it.

FlatOnTheHill · 28/12/2015 01:05

Casta
Reading your comment you are being offended on behalf of my colleague who is not offended. We have worked together and socialised for years. I wish people would stop saying what they assume she is thinking. Trust me we would all know as she has a big enough gob. Like I do too.