To ask for advice on me and DP's hoarding and messy tendencies

[OhTannenbomb]

I live with DP, we both have lives we are reasonably content with.

No children and we don't work/commute excessive hours.

The flat is always a right tip.

It's a one bedroom flat so shouldn't be hard at all, but just seems to never get done consistently.

It's basically "can't invite anyone round spontaneously" messy most of the time.

DP pulls his weight and is the least sexist person I know.

But I think he has differences with me in that I tend to want things completely clear if we're cleaning, whereas he will do things like leave a pile of stuff after he's swept up and things on surfaces and not leave surfaces "clear". So it always seems to be in this weird half-messy state.

Also, he's very frugal and a "fixer and finder of things" (which is great financially - he makes or re-uses rather than buys, whilst happily putting the spare money towards extra's or a night out for me or towards savings/ deposit on a 1st home for both of us).

He cooks really good food but I'm beginning to dread it as it always seems to mean a pile of dishes and things all over the kitchen for days afterwards (unless I do it myself).

(He isn't as bothered by the mess as me. But also I don't want to always be cleaning up after him or be the "nag"?).

His happiness and freedom and peace of mind is most important to me. But we seem to have heaps of junk around all the time from him changing bike wheels or things he found on the street which he "might" use or sell on.

We have good working conditions, lots of hobbies, friends, and are very emotionally and intellectually close - I just think we owe it to ourselves not to live like Stig of the Dump!

My parents had issues, and lived in a giant old house, and hoarded shit whilst simultaneously having financial issues and being stuck in other areas of their lives

(they were also abusive so I'm NC with them, but one of the many things that made my childhood unhappy was that people were never invited round as the place was a tip with piles of stuff in it)

Hopefully I seem to have just about avoided their emotional difficulties, but the flat is depressing me and I worry I'm just repeating history with my parents.

We're thinking of buying (which wouldn't be possible without DP's savings - he will put the majority of money towards it but insists on equal shares/ joint names) but it would just be horrid if it was always the same way as it is now.

I've tried Flylady but it just seems to be daily advertising e-mails for overpriced wipes!

Hi Tannenbomb,

What you're saying really reminds me of my own situation.
My DH does the washing up and lots of DIY too. But then he has piles of things around that he's not put away.

If I leave stuff around he never complains. But he won't tidy it up either. And I do leave stuff around.

I have a really busy job and am worn out when I come home. Before I started this job I did most of the organising of the home. Now I am just too tired.

Things have got messier and messier over time.

Yesterday I asked him how he saw Christmas. He said he'd do a meal on the 24th and I said I'll make dinner on the 25th.
My student daughter is coming home on Monday and I'd really like her to feel happy to be home.

We agreed to clean up the house together tomorrow. Tomorrow will not be enough time to do everything though.

I am not looking forward to doing the nagging / chivvying him along stuff. But I've realised over time that if I don't do that then I end up doing all the jobs inside on my own. And he does outside jobs which I'd like to do too.

So tomorrow ( well in a few hours really) i'll be making a start with him in the kitchen. Once that's done - or even part way through - I think he'll make attempts to get outside.

Before, when it got to that point I'd say nothing and just carry on doing the jobs myself. Over the last year I haven't. I've complained.

So tomorrow I'll have to be ready for him when he starts sloping away. Actually, as I wrote that I realised that the better way to handle our situation is to agree on things before we start.

Because we've a lot to do, I think I'm going to suggest that we work all day together inside first.

I'll ask him to agree on how we can work one area together before we start. Next I'll do the same tackling a second stage together. Hopefully I'll be able to get through the day with him continuing to participate in inside jobs ( rather than escaping outside) and we'll make good progress. Perhaps we could agree to having a 10 min break every hour.

I'm nervous about it because he can be a big shit when he doesn't want to do something ( and because when I got home last night he was taking apart the chainsaw on the kitchen table because it's broken and is now dotted around in small piles around the kitchen).

Ok. So I'm going to get some shut eye before The Big Day. Wish me luck eh !

It's not you! OP buy him the Marie Kondo book (magic of tidying) as a Christmas/New Years gift. It's utterly life changing. I've gone from being totally messy and cluttered to stream lined and organised and this book showered me how and held my hand through the transformation.

It involved going through EVERYTHING in stages, only keeping properly useful items or things that bring joy. (Also what to do with annoying things like paperwork). After a few months I possessed only 1/2 my possessions!! A huge amount had been recycled or given away or sold. After that I learnt how to store clothes and other items so that I could build systems. At this point I bought more storage. Now I'm working on

A) tidying up any mess as we go along. So if we do some creative painting/make a sandwich/get changed or what ever, we immediately clean up properly afterwards. THIS MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!

B) having a rota for everyone. So DAILY my DH washes the pots/dries/puts away after we've eaten. Saturday lunchtime he mops/hovers the whole house while I change the bedsheets. Monthly we set aside a few hours together and blitz deeper cleaning stuff like windows/cleaning the fridge and cupboards. We also see if there's anything else we can get rid of.

C) any of DH's possessions left out get shoved into a specific cupboard. So the screw driver/DIY bits on the kitchen surface which he should have put away, any clothes say on the floor, his half dealt with paperwork gets shoved in the huge cupboard. The spare room is his domain and he keeps it how he likes. I direct him to THE cupboard of doom when ever he has lost anything.

We were bought up by parents that did everything and we had no opportunity to lean how to look after myself. My sisters and myself have had to learn housekeeping/cooking as adults, which has been really unnatural and hard going.

A rota for myself, DH and the boys has meant things are routine and we complete tasks automatically.

Yes it's normal to want to have a house where you can just have guests round and not feel mortified.

Baz - DH also has a chainsaw laid out in the spare room

Enjoyed reading your experience Domino. What is it about chainsaws and. Christmas ?

DH is currently snoring away and seems to have forgotten his festive fervour with which to start the day.

• Ah - tell a lie - the beast is risen !

How are things going for you OP ?

He just wants to put the chainsaw quickly back together before starting on the housework! Crafty devil ! He's already got plans to get outside !
I'm going to say 'no'!
Ooooeeew -
Wish me luck !

What are his parents like? This might give you an insight. Also he doesn't clear up - maybe subconsciously he expects it will get done - could have been his mother when he was growing up (wildly speculating here).

Either way he's not making you happy, you are letting him get away with it. So both of you need to do something. Make your feelings known and clearly!

You need to create a system where you have a) less stuff and b) places to keep the stuff you do have.
I'm betting the reason he makes piles when you tidy is because there is nowhere to put things away properly.
We are exactly like you - both messy but I care more! He would happily invite people into a messy house and wouldn't give two hoots about what they think. I would die of shame!
So, slowly, I have put the systems in to place so everything has a home. For instance last week I tackled coats, I put all out coats/jackets/outerwear in a pile and we went through them. Then I put up an extra set of coat hooks so there are enough to hang everything on. Now when we tidy there is a place for coats.
I did the same with paperwork, DIY stuff. Today I'm tackling the kids' arts and crafts. Every weekend I aim to get rid of at least one black bag full of things we don't need.
Basically, I'm putting the effort into getting things sorted, but then I'm expecting DH to help them stay sorted. So far we're doing okay 😁

It sounds like a nightmare and you seem really unhappy about it all. Personally I think it's unlikely he will ever change so you either decide to put up with it or you move out.

You have my sympathies op. Dh is a hoarder and is pretty untidy on top of it too.
It's so frustrating. I know what you mean with the "he doesn't see it as women's work - just doesn't see that it needs doing"

Can you shame him into tidying, it the only thing that really works with my dh. If I invite someone round he will do a decent job of tidying up. If he's just cleaning and tidying up normally he tends to leave piles of crap around the house.

I am a professional declutterer and I have done many homes where the woman thinks she is the hoarder but in fact it's him. Occasionally there are mental health problems causing the mess and hoarding but in your case I would say it is laziness and not having grown out of the "student" phase because basically you are living like students or at worst in a squat. You need to start working as a team. If he is as you say, he won't mind you telling him what you are both going to do.

If I was coming to your house the first thing I would tackle is the kitchens, fill the sink with hot soapy water and put all the dishes in, remove them from the rest of the flat as well. Get all the ingredients etc back into the cupboards and clean the work tops. Get a couple of black bin liners, you and him and throw out all the rubbish on the top and floor and don't even think of recycling till you are clear and organised.

Clear the hallway, remove any bits that would not be in any normal home, ie bits of bikes, tools in fact anything unnecessary taking up space.

Get all your clothes organised, dirty clothes into the basket and get a wash on. The rest hang up or fold into drawers, shoes together and into a wardrobe.

Once you have tackled that get into the living room and don't forget the tops of furniture because they are normally covered with bits of paper, takeaway menus stuff you either don't need or want. Ask yourself if you need it or can live without it.

If you don't tackle this mess now, saving for a deposit is pointless because you will never move, because as it stands now it will only get worse and neither of you will tackle it. I'm surprised your landlord hasn't given you notice to clear up or get out.

Does he notice other peoples houses and the way they look, does he really think you both deserve to be living like this. I would be concerned because if nothing is done you will still be in the same muddle this time next year and if you ever get moved the next house will be the same.

You are basically living in a fire hazard and that is not fair on you or your neighbours. You are also living in an ideal condition for mice and domestic beetles.

Sorry if I'm being harsh but I have seen it so many times. If you start today you might get a couple of rooms clear before Christmas.

Sorry a few rogue commas in there.

I don't think he's sexist necessarily. I'm exactly the same and don't expect anyone else to tidy up after me.

I'll tidy when I really have to, otherwise the mess just doesn't bother me.

Could you say something like at X time daily, it's non-negotiable tidy-up time and just get on with it? Like 15 mins everyday for both of you before you settle down for the evening?

I come from a family of horders. Hoarding is well-meant, you are trying to be thrifty and resourceful. However, what tends to happen, having stuff ready for every eventuality leaves very little room for living your life today.

I have hoarding tendencies myself. I've been married 10+ years, and from the very first moments together I realized DH has a different relationship to possessions. For me, clutter and spare parts mean that I'll never be without something. For DH, empty spaces are much more important.

The hard part for me is letting go of stuff - helping to find a place to store it/recycle it/ sell it on/ find a new home for it. When someone helps me with that, it's so much easier for me to downsize and get organized.

Some things that have helped:

• organizing storage spaces so that every item has a designated space where it can be kept out of sight
• moving to a new place: prior to a move, I spend months getting rid of extra stuff
• keeping the recycling efficient. A lot of my stuff is packing materials, empty cardboard boxes, glass jars... When we take the trash and recycling out regularly, it's easier for me to let go of things
• other people helping - DH has rented a van a couple of times to take dead electronics and tatty furniture to the local landfill, and some relatives have helped me to get rid of used clothes
• agreeing with relatives that they don't bring us magazines, toys, decoration and other trinkets - we have limited gift exchanges

I think trying to talk about this in an open and friendly way and offering to help with sorting through stuff might help. Marie Kondo's idea that you are allowed to let go of an item that has served its purpose and no longer brings you joy has also helped me a lot.

My DH attempted hoarding but I hate it so started the tactic of putting any random bits of paper, pens and small stuff like a dropped sock in his work bag. This really pissed him off and he improved. He still has lower standards than me and I won't ever be able to change that but is more manageable. I have also put stuff away if dropped, he cannot find it then and it is as I remind him entirely his fault.

You might try this website, which is less twee than Flylady and less severe than Kondo.

www.unfuckyourhabitat.com/

Thanks for the website recommendation. It is really good - it inspired me to sort out the bathroom and take out some junk I've been storaging in a hidden corner there.

CanadianJohn loved that link. A lot of what I said on my post. Op hasn't been back, hopefully sorting him and (herself) out.

Is this a situation where massive plastic stackable storage boxes might be a way into tackling the problem?

Like....everything that relates to a project that has not been worked on in the last 24 hours gets put into a storage box - by him if he wants to remain in control of tracking all the pieces etc, or by you in the closest one(s) with space if you get sick of looking at the stuff before he does. (To minimise strife you could also invest in a roll of ziploc bags for keeping together piles of tiny screws etc). The stack of say three big boxes lives in the designated crafting corner, and the rest of the flat is regularly picked up/decluttered of random crap build-up (such as junk mail and washing up). This may involve you having joint regular 15 min pickups again, maybe 2 or 3 times a week.

After 6 months of actually keeping a tidy flat most of the time, with storage boxes in it, you would then be ready to consider if everything in those boxes is required/could go somewhere else/etc. The answer may be 'no' or to get a shed.

Thank you for all the responses, great food for thought, I'm probably going to come up with a composite plan to move things forward.

DP is away now over the Xmas period so I have the space to do some sorting

(to illustrate both our strengths and weaknesses - I've just been going through the cupboards, things we might have thrown away on "my" whims - I found a gorgeous table he had rescued from street and randomly painted green and it will be JUST the ticket if we buy as we won't have landlord's furniture then. And I'd love it and it would save us money).

I bought the Kondo book and have done my clothes. Also Ikea seem to have some good storage solutions.

It's harder to be tidy in a small flat, OP, than in a large place with lots of storage.
Two suggestions:
-- don't not have people over because of the mess. Truly, most of us care a lot less than you think. It's you we come to see, not your housekeeping, and we'll feel you're not friendly if you don't ever get us round. (Helps that someone in the house is a great cook too!)
containerize (sorry horrible American word, should be "contain") and zone. Maybe you and your partner are the kind of people who like to see what you're working on, rather than hide things away for the sake of tidiness. But it will look tidier if everything is in an allocated open box or basket, or even on a set of open bookshelves like Ikea Billy they're not just for books -- so things are visible but contained. As for zoning, obviously it's harder in a small place but if you can agree that all (say) DIY projects and their tools belong on this tarp or rug in this corner, and all cooking things stay on the counter, then again it looks neater and more deliberate, and also there is less risk of its spreading to cover the WHOLE place.

I have enjoyed reading the posts on this thread. Here DH and I have made steady inroads into to the clearnng and tidying.
We agreed on an action plan from the outset and it was relatively easy to stop him breaking away into the garden.
So, last day of tidying and cleaning for me. I need to:
A) Clean out the fridge.

B) Sort out a big pile of:

• sewing / mending
• art stuff
• odd sock bag
• teddy bear bag
• work books
• other items hidden in the pile

and put them in plastic containers according to themes.
This could take some time so I'll have to do the fridge first.
Feeling nervous about it - partly because I'm going to have to mess up an area I've already cleaned in order to sort through the pile, partly because I've then got to take the boxes to their different zones. That's the part I dislike the most because I can't watch telly whilst I'm doing it.

When it's done I'll give myself a little treat. I'll have a lovely shower and do my nails.

Then present and meal preparations will start tomorrow and all will be good.

Wishing you a Merry Christmas OP and the same to all who posted on your thread.
[santa]

Iggi is right, you can listen to marie kondo's book for free on YouTube as someone has it uploaded. The life changing magic of tidying. I dealt with my clutter after listening.

Heh
Thanks for the info !
Sometimes tidying and cleaning can seem a lonely place .

I meant to add- I can lusten to it whilst doing my jobs this afternoon.

Listening to Kondo too

I've just turned down a going out invite with some great friends to stay in and use that day off to tidy.

And I'm making an Ikea list.