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Original poster

to think its a disgrace that Cameron is going to stop lifetime council tenancies

685 replies

sparklesandglitterxx · 17/12/2015 09:09

and think that that is NOT the solution to the housing crisis?

the solution as far as i can see it is, lots and lots more council houses need to be built, regulation in private renting needs to be improved, and GENUINELY affordable houses to buy for those on low wages that wish to or are able to buy

fed up of seeing the great things about Britain being chipped away. Why punish renters? The whole Tory attitude towards council housing being a last resort for the destitute disgusts me. council housing needs to be brought back to what it was originally meant for...which is a decent secure home for anyone who wants one. i live on a council estate which is a mix of council, HA and bought. People stay here, they build lives here, generally it is a lovely community. i have never been happier or more settled anywhere i have lived, I have done well in my life and been able to have a big family. my children are happy and thriving at school and have lots of friends. My point is if these changes go through, they will end up DESTROYING communities like ours and so many others. The Tories just seem to want everyone either paying their landlord mates every penny they earn or pushing up house prices by buying. But not everyone wants to buy, and more importantly not everyone CAN buy, (I have friends on good money who are still priced out the market) and hardly anyone would actually CHOOSE to be in insecure, expensive private rented !! I also think that if more people are in secure housing, it will help peoples mental health (hence cutting costs in mental health services), it will improve childrens chances in life, as they wont have to keep moving schools and away from friends etc, it will encourage people to better themselves, it will cut the HB bill, and also with people spending less on their rent they will have more to spend in the economy, thus boosting it!

I also suspect it wont end here....while it will be for new tenants only to start with, i would imagine it will end up being everyone in council / HA

OP posts:
honeysucklejasmine · 29/12/2015 22:26

I suppose the trouble with causing a drop in house prices by building loads more is that it would plunge hundreds of thousands of people in to negative equity, leading to financial ruin, and eventual bankruptcy probably. Which wouldn't be good for the economy, really. So they need to keep prices high to prevent that

apricotdanish · 29/12/2015 22:31

I private rent and claim HB and WTC AND CTC, I'm going to go back to university to finish my degree (nursing) but even when I qualify and start as a band 5, I won't be able to afford my own house, again, I am doing as I am told and choosing a career I love as it is what I will do forever, why should I choose a career just for the money side of things so I can afford a house? You can carry on being miserable in your careers just so you can have a fancy house but I was always taught to go for a career you like, start looking at why this country is so shit at paying a decent wage for everyone, not telling people to suck it up and find a job that pays well. What shitty advice! I feel for people who tell their kids that. Yeah things are bullshit right now, but I will not be telling my kids get a job that pays well, I'll be encouraging them to choose a career that they think they will like! These fucking threads!! Always bring out the Katie Hopkins of mumsnet!!

Viviennemary, this is the person you referred to as sponging and I've highlighted the section in which she states she is taking a nursing degree. She has also stated she receives WTC which means she is in work and yet you've seen fit to tell her that she is entitled and a scrounger.

Justanotherlurker · 29/12/2015 22:58

No one is saying you should choose a career just so you can afford a house, as I and others have said the root cause of many of our current problems do stem from putting a roof over our heads, but that doesn't mean we should rely on the state and all do a job we 'love', to try and extropalate that all those who can afford a house are in a career they hate whilst ignoring a large swathe of modern Britain that people without 'careers' have been in the right demographic so they can't afford to get onto the housing ladder is being niave.

HelenaDove · 29/12/2015 23:04

Would you really want to be treated by a paramedic or a nurse (who on top of the stress of facing the changes that Jeremy Hunt is orchestrating) is also under stress from housing worries?

Justanotherlurker · 29/12/2015 23:09

I suppose the trouble with causing a drop in house prices by building loads more is that it would plunge hundreds of thousands of people in to negative equity, leading to financial ruin, and eventual bankruptcy probably. Which wouldn't be good for the economy, really. So they need to keep prices high to prevent that

That is one of the reasons why the electorate (of any stripe) will not vote for any government that are wanting to do this.

Political allegiance wasn't a pre requisite for getting cheap credit over the past couple of decades.

Justanotherlurker · 29/12/2015 23:22

I want to be treated by someone who is the least stressed as can be, the same as I would be when I interact with a shop assistant/taxi driver or teacher of my children etc.

I'm not niave enough to try and make this some political point scoring excersise though, within the context of the OP reallocating socail housing to those more in need is chipping away at the overall problem IMO

Viviennemary · 29/12/2015 23:35

People must stop relying so much on the state. And stop expecting to be housed in areas the rest of us cannot afford. I agree house prices are too high. The answer certainly isn't even more HB and welfare handouts.

Atenco · 30/12/2015 05:19

DownstairsMixUp

Thank goodness there are people like you with a vocation for nursing. Some people here put a lot more value on merchant bankers and stock brokers who have only ever done harm

Alfieisnoisy · 30/12/2015 10:27

What IS the answer then vivienne? Let's hear how you would solve everything.

Or do you not care about those struggling to keep a roof over their heads.

I live in the expensive south east which I was able to afford when in work.

I now get full housing benefit and am a Carer.

All my support network is here but hey.....guess I can just up and move somewhere cheaper and forget the support.

That's what Tory voters generally suggest while conveniently forgetting life is not black and white.

There have been awful changes to benefits. I hate these bastards in power with a passion I never knew I had. I have equal hatred for the last Labour govt (Tory lite) who did nothing to improve housing issues while in power.

Self serving politicians, a press who are nothing more than sound pieces for the Govt and a society who give not a shit for anyone but themselves. Lovely isn't it?

Viviennemary · 30/12/2015 10:54

Well we'll see how far Jeremy Corbyn gets in persuading people his way is better. I am not in favour of HB as it encourages high prices and prices out people from buying property as it's all snapped up by landlords. Many many people have to move from the area they want to live in because they simply can't afford it. I am in favour of welfare benefits for people in need. I am not in favour of huge subsidies to allow people to live in expensive areas.

leaningtoweroflego · 30/12/2015 11:06

Viviennemary if you move people out of areas where they have a support network then it costs the state more money in the long term, don't you see that?

People who live in communities where they have support are less likely to need the support of the health service, social services and are more likely to be able to take on work, than those forcibly moved to places with cheap rent.

Viviennemary · 30/12/2015 11:11

But this is why it's so wrong. What happens if somebody not on HB whose family needs them has to move from North to South. They can't because they can't afford the house prices. Nobody is forcing anybody to move anywhere. People move to where they can afford. That used to be the case. Now it isn't because of subsidies.

leaningtoweroflego · 30/12/2015 11:24

Viviennemary you might have an argument if house prices stayed the same.

But people are being priced out of their home areas because of the huge speed at which house prices are rising, and that is happening because of decisions taken by sucessive governments, including Labour's failure to prioritise housing.

People are being forced out of their communities by rising prices.

If we stopped treating housing as a commodity (eg by giving tenants - social and private - proper rights, and imposing rent caps) and started a program of social housing building, then it would improve matters for everybody (except landlords).

What I don't get about the argument that "private renters have to move so why shouldn't people on HB" is it does nothing to solve the underlying causes

Do you really want a society that is fair, but is only fair because it is crap for everyone (with the exception of a privileged few?)

Shouldn't we be aspiring for a better life for everyone instead?

SaucyJack · 30/12/2015 11:26

So what is it you imagine would happen to the South if everyone who couldn't afford to live there without social housing or tax credits/HB moved up North?

Who is you imagine would be able to afford to work in retail/hospitality/care sector/admin/most other jobs in fact?

And who's going to look after the children of the few who can afford to stay so they can go to work? No nursery staff/nannies would be left. Indeed, some parts of the SE are no longer affordable even to teachers.

It's certainly wrong that it's not possible to live in large areas of the country with state help, but as I said earlier this (low pay/high rents) is something that needs to be tackled at the source- not taken out on ordinary people who've been priced out of their homes.

Viviennemary · 30/12/2015 11:48

Why are house prices rising if they are already too high and people are already being priced out of areas. The answer surely can't be even higher Housing Benefit to keep up with price rises. The spiral has got to stop somewhere. It's a huge problem.

DyslexicScientist · 30/12/2015 11:55

The spiral might never stop, theres no political interest in lowering prices.everyone feels richer with rising prices.

They will do all they can to keep the plates spinning.

leaningtoweroflego · 30/12/2015 11:59

"The answer surely can't be even higher Housing Benefit to keep up with price rises."

No, the answer is to do something about those house prices.

If we had many more council houses, that would help bring rental prices down for everyone, including private tenants (simple supply and demand) and go a huge way to solving this problem.

If private rents were capped, that would also help, as would secure tenancies for everyone; it would be a step away from housing being traded as a commodity, which is a massive part of the problem.

Also huge penalties for owners who buy properties as investments and leave them empty. We have a ridiculous situation where investors are buying up property for their portfolios and not even bothering to rent them out.

Viviennemary · 30/12/2015 11:59

People struggling to pay private rents or struggling to save for a mortgage deposit can't feel richer. They will see the house they want spiral ever further out of their reach. Nothing will make me think huge Housing Benefit subsidies are a good thing. Or stopping lifeline council tenancies for the select few isn't a good thing.

Viviennemary · 30/12/2015 12:01

And why should they not buy up property if that's allowed. Interest on money in the bank is nil. We don't live in a communist state. People can spend their own money on what they like. It's this spending other people's that I object to.

leaningtoweroflego · 30/12/2015 12:09

Viviennemary I don't understand why you fin't seem interested in doing anything to stop house prices rising.

If lots more council houses were built that would help everyone (whether a private or council tenant, or buyer) and properly run it could bring money into the public purse, not to mention the millions saved on rent currently going out of the public purse into private landlords' profit.

How anyone could be opposed to this, on anything other than ideological grounds, I am baffled!

Please do enlighten me!

knobblyknee · 30/12/2015 12:13

Viviennemary

No one should have to live in a state of insecurity concerning the roof over their head or achieving a basic income.

Council housing was brought in after WW2 to house returning soldiers, and to rebuild after the Blitz.
Lifelong tenancies were a reward to people like coal miners and steel workers and their families. So that pensioners who had served their country werent thrown out on the street.

You have no patriotism, you clearly dont give a shit about anyone but yourself and think anything else is communism.

But you have no solutions to real problems. Get over yourself.

Viviennemary · 30/12/2015 12:19

But lots more council houses aren't being built. And I think that's quite a good thing. Because you had these vast estates of run down council homes that nobody wanted to live in. And were left in a dreadful state. Nobody wants a return to that. Rent subsidies should be capped and tax relief for landlords should stop. I am in favour of home ownership rather than renting.

leaningtoweroflego · 30/12/2015 12:29

"you had these vast estates of run down council homes that nobody wanted to live in. And were left in a dreadful state. Nobody wants a return to that."

Agreed some (not all) council housing was in a terrible state especially in the 80s / 90s. But there is no reason why a modern program of council housing should be badly run. Other countries manage to run social housing schemes and keep the buildings well. If we have the political will to do it we can.

What on earth do you mean by "I am in favour of home ownership rather than renting" what about those who can't afford to but?

leaningtoweroflego · 30/12/2015 12:30

*to buy, not to but!

Viviennemary · 30/12/2015 12:55

Most people could afford to buy if house prices weren't inflated. And I blame Housing Benefit and the rush to the South for that problem. I fail to see why the rest of the country should be barred from buying or renting in the South East because you need a rental subsidy (paid for by the whole country) in order to live there. Rents are higher than mortgage payments. What a crazy system. But rents are subsidised. And mortgage payments aren't usually.